Aries
Well-Known Member
I am looking at a yacht that has an inner forestay. On a normal rig with a genoa and a mainsail, what use is this, other than for a storm jib? I have read about staysails, but would such a sail be used?
Inner forestay
- Thread starter Aries
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ccscott49
Well-Known Member
You can use it to rig a self tacking staysail, which makes the rig into a cutter (nominally) But most of the time on modern boats, it's used for a storm jib.
fluffc
Well-Known Member
If attached to the mast well below the hounds, it is designed to control the mast bend.
gardenshed
Well-Known Member
Need to know the size of boat and rig configuration to answer this accurately.
Many boats have an inner forestay (baby stay) purely to prevent the mid section of the mast from pumping (moving back & forwards) in a big sea.
A staysail is used downwind with a spinnaker to gain additional drive when broad reaching. Not often used these days as it complicates gybing (gets in the way) and has only a marginal impact.
Many boats have an inner forestay (baby stay) purely to prevent the mid section of the mast from pumping (moving back & forwards) in a big sea.
A staysail is used downwind with a spinnaker to gain additional drive when broad reaching. Not often used these days as it complicates gybing (gets in the way) and has only a marginal impact.
wcarpenter
Member
On a UFO I had, there was one and I could get all sorts of bends in a very robust mast.
Aries
Well-Known Member
Looking at a photo, the inner is fitted at the top of the mast.
tome
Well-Known Member
It's a very useful feature. An inner stay means that you can furl away your big jib and hank on a No 3 in its place (or obviously a storm jib)
A No 3 jib transforms an upwind beat into a pleasure rather than a battle, with a light and responsive helm. You'd never get the same shape or performance by furling the genoa. Once you've enjoyed this benefit, you'll never want a boat without an inner stay. Has lots of other benefits also
A No 3 jib transforms an upwind beat into a pleasure rather than a battle, with a light and responsive helm. You'd never get the same shape or performance by furling the genoa. Once you've enjoyed this benefit, you'll never want a boat without an inner stay. Has lots of other benefits also
Toutvabien
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about setting a second headsail on my inner forestay for running downwind, anybody else done this?
Salty John
Well-Known Member
If the stay is permanently set up then it is a true cutter rig and the staysail will give you additional drive, and will bring the center of effort inboard as the sail area is progressively reduced as the wind gets stronger. Modern boats with rollerfurling head sails have nowhere to hang a working jib or storm jib when the going gets tough and the rollerfurling jib needs to be wound in too much for it to set properly. A removable inner forestay is the answer. Because it runs from the masthead I'm guessing it is a removable stay and is run from the masthead so that running backstays are not required to counterbalance it, as would be the case if it terminated below the masthead and above the spreaders. A good arrangement if you favour rollerfurling headsails and want to sail offshore.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Never used my staysail running, normally get it down when the wind goes aft of the beam. Mkaes for a great sail when in heavy weather, with just it and the mizzen up.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
We have a similar arrangement to the photo posted by Tome. The top of the inner forestay is just below the masthead; the bottom (on a quick release lever arrangement) is a few feet aft of the stem head (where the roller genoa forestay is attached).
We keep the inner forestay rigged all the time - if using the genoa, we tend to just wind it in quickly as we come through a tack, and then unfurl it again on the new tack. Although it is a bit inconvenient having to do this, I like the peace of mind of having that extra forestay.
We can use full genoa and full main happily up to about 15-18 knots apparent. In stronger winds, or if it is gusty, we have a hank on staysail which is probably about 60% of the area of the full genoa. It is high cut, rather like a flying jib on a conventional cutter, and the shape was recommended by a very knowledgeable gentleman from Doyle Sailmakers who built (sewed?) it for us.
The staysail and full main combination works very well. The most severe weather we have subjected the staysail to was about 30 - 33 knots apparent, motorsailing to windward (back to Barbados from the Grenadines) with 2 reefs in the main.
If the wind strength ever increases to a lot more than this, then we shall be reduced to the storm jib and triple reefed main, but we have never had to do this yet!
Re sailing downwind, one combination we have used with the wind on the stern quarter is to pole out the staysail to windward using the spinnaker pole, and either flying the genoa loose to leeward, perhaps with the mainsail up, or 'barber hauling' (correct word?) the genoa sheet further outboard via a block on the end of the main boom (but only if the mainsail is not being used).
We keep the inner forestay rigged all the time - if using the genoa, we tend to just wind it in quickly as we come through a tack, and then unfurl it again on the new tack. Although it is a bit inconvenient having to do this, I like the peace of mind of having that extra forestay.
We can use full genoa and full main happily up to about 15-18 knots apparent. In stronger winds, or if it is gusty, we have a hank on staysail which is probably about 60% of the area of the full genoa. It is high cut, rather like a flying jib on a conventional cutter, and the shape was recommended by a very knowledgeable gentleman from Doyle Sailmakers who built (sewed?) it for us.
The staysail and full main combination works very well. The most severe weather we have subjected the staysail to was about 30 - 33 knots apparent, motorsailing to windward (back to Barbados from the Grenadines) with 2 reefs in the main.
If the wind strength ever increases to a lot more than this, then we shall be reduced to the storm jib and triple reefed main, but we have never had to do this yet!
Re sailing downwind, one combination we have used with the wind on the stern quarter is to pole out the staysail to windward using the spinnaker pole, and either flying the genoa loose to leeward, perhaps with the mainsail up, or 'barber hauling' (correct word?) the genoa sheet further outboard via a block on the end of the main boom (but only if the mainsail is not being used).
William_H
Well-Known Member
Hello Aries you don't sa7y what size of baot you are looking at.
On almost all mast head rigged boats the inner forestay is half height and attached to the deck about 1/3 way from mast to bow.
This inner forestay is for mast bend control. More specifically to support the middle of the mast against the pull aft of the intermediate sidestays which pull from aft of the mast base. You must not remove this inner forestay except perhaps in the lightest of conditions or risk the mast crumpling. some rigs have 2 additional intermediate sidestays which are attached forward of the mast to react against the 2 stays attached aft of the mast.
On fractional rigs they tend to use intermediate sidestays attached aft of the mast to pull cntre back but use aft swept spreaders bearing on the cap shrouds which push the middle of the mast forward against the int. sidestays. so no inner forestay.
If you sail in a tight area with lots of tacking then an inner forestay becomes a real pain because the genoa has to be pulled around the inner forestay each tme you tack. some larger boats when racing in tight quarters actually have a crew man on foredeck whose role is to helkp the genoa around the inner forestay.
So if you don't tack often or it only a smaller boat then an inner forestay is not a problem.
IMHO some of the previous posters are centred on the problems of roller reefed jibs which do not set well owhen deep reefed. A smaller sorm jib set on a (often) detatchable inner forestay can set and sail much better in strong winds.
If however you have a smaller boat with changable jibs then a tiny jib on the forestay is just as good in strong winds.
Note however that the inner forestay that is midway up the mast and well aft on the foredeck is generally not suitable for a sail hoist as it is too far aft and too low. So you can end up with 2 inner forestays. One to hold the mast up and one to put a storm sail on.
Re reading your post you may be refering to an inner forestay which is attached well forward on the deck and goes up to a point 3/4 of the way up the mast. This type is usually only for setting a sail. Hopefully the mast is well supported without this inner forestay. You should check that aspect. cutter rigs were popular where sail reduction could be made by simply removing a jib (one of 2) but is less popular now with roller reefing being popular.
I hope this has addressed your question. I am a little boat man who sails in congested waters and love my fractional rig with no inner forestay and if the weather comes up I just send the crew up front to replace the jib with a smaller one. A fractioanl rig usually has a smaller jib so is much easier to tack with less jib to winch in.
good luck in your search olewill
On almost all mast head rigged boats the inner forestay is half height and attached to the deck about 1/3 way from mast to bow.
This inner forestay is for mast bend control. More specifically to support the middle of the mast against the pull aft of the intermediate sidestays which pull from aft of the mast base. You must not remove this inner forestay except perhaps in the lightest of conditions or risk the mast crumpling. some rigs have 2 additional intermediate sidestays which are attached forward of the mast to react against the 2 stays attached aft of the mast.
On fractional rigs they tend to use intermediate sidestays attached aft of the mast to pull cntre back but use aft swept spreaders bearing on the cap shrouds which push the middle of the mast forward against the int. sidestays. so no inner forestay.
If you sail in a tight area with lots of tacking then an inner forestay becomes a real pain because the genoa has to be pulled around the inner forestay each tme you tack. some larger boats when racing in tight quarters actually have a crew man on foredeck whose role is to helkp the genoa around the inner forestay.
So if you don't tack often or it only a smaller boat then an inner forestay is not a problem.
IMHO some of the previous posters are centred on the problems of roller reefed jibs which do not set well owhen deep reefed. A smaller sorm jib set on a (often) detatchable inner forestay can set and sail much better in strong winds.
If however you have a smaller boat with changable jibs then a tiny jib on the forestay is just as good in strong winds.
Note however that the inner forestay that is midway up the mast and well aft on the foredeck is generally not suitable for a sail hoist as it is too far aft and too low. So you can end up with 2 inner forestays. One to hold the mast up and one to put a storm sail on.
Re reading your post you may be refering to an inner forestay which is attached well forward on the deck and goes up to a point 3/4 of the way up the mast. This type is usually only for setting a sail. Hopefully the mast is well supported without this inner forestay. You should check that aspect. cutter rigs were popular where sail reduction could be made by simply removing a jib (one of 2) but is less popular now with roller reefing being popular.
I hope this has addressed your question. I am a little boat man who sails in congested waters and love my fractional rig with no inner forestay and if the weather comes up I just send the crew up front to replace the jib with a smaller one. A fractioanl rig usually has a smaller jib so is much easier to tack with less jib to winch in.
good luck in your search olewill
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
W
I find great satisfaction in your posts. You put a lot in, and I learn a great deal.
I find great satisfaction in your posts. You put a lot in, and I learn a great deal.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Barber haulers are for changing the angle of the lead to a genoa or yankee, if you dont have genoa tracks, (old way of doing it) I think!! Well it's what I use mine for.
I may get a bigger staysail, mine is boomed, but I could take a much larger one, high clewed and use it as Bajansailor describes! Make it my working sail and use the big roller yankee for lighter airs. More bloody expense!!!
I may get a bigger staysail, mine is boomed, but I could take a much larger one, high clewed and use it as Bajansailor describes! Make it my working sail and use the big roller yankee for lighter airs. More bloody expense!!!
Ocean Hound
Well-Known Member
Good configuration. Had in inner forestay fiited to my Westerley Storm for because, A) wanted to able to rig a storm jib B) rig a working jib as don't like heavily furled genoas, centre of force moves upward, or in case roller drum seizeing/problems C) enable me to rig another foresail for downwind sailing. The only issue is that any sail has to be hanked and also requires a strop at the foot because of the tension mechanism.
Ocean Hound
Well-Known Member
PS. should have said it is removable one, i.e can be undone and retentioned to a point nearer the and mast so doesn't infere with normal sailing/ tacking etc
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
A couple of grunts more tension on that halyard, please, Tom.
tome
Well-Known Member
Taken shortly after I had the removable inner fitted, but the halyard lead wan't quite right. Swapped it with genoa halyard and much better
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Just a question of terminology.
For me a permanently rigged stay used for mast support is a baby stay. They're a bit few and far between now, on modern rigs.
A stay, fixed or removable, for hoisting a sail is an inner forestay.
For me a permanently rigged stay used for mast support is a baby stay. They're a bit few and far between now, on modern rigs.
A stay, fixed or removable, for hoisting a sail is an inner forestay.
Aries
Well-Known Member
The boat I am looking at is a Dufour 32 Classic. The inner forestay is removable, running from the top of the mast.
Thanks to everyone who has replied. I have learned a lot. I like the idea of a smaller (No 2 or 3) with a high cut yanked onto the inner for heaver winds.
At present, we have a high cut No 3, with a luff tape, so we have to remove the genoa and then hoist that. We do this if the forecast is a bit windy and we put one or two reefs in when setting off. We have a storm jib, also taped, with a long luff line and jib mounted low down. I have never had to use it 9Thank goodness).
Again, thanks to everybody who has replied.
Thanks to everyone who has replied. I have learned a lot. I like the idea of a smaller (No 2 or 3) with a high cut yanked onto the inner for heaver winds.
At present, we have a high cut No 3, with a luff tape, so we have to remove the genoa and then hoist that. We do this if the forecast is a bit windy and we put one or two reefs in when setting off. We have a storm jib, also taped, with a long luff line and jib mounted low down. I have never had to use it 9Thank goodness).
Again, thanks to everybody who has replied.
