Inner forestay / babystay

[blackdogsailing]

We never use it and it gets in the way of the genoa when we change direction. Is it ok to remove it or will the mast fall down?

Your rig looks almost identical to mine. My babystay is attached to 4:1 purchase and into a jamming block. It is only used when sailing hard on the wind in any sort of chop. Together with the running checkstays and hydraulic backstay it stops the mast from 'pumping'. In any light conditions it can be removed but I wouldn't take it off all together. (Told to me by a rigger !).

as an aside. There seems to be some confusion between a babystay and an inner forestay. (I have both). The inner forestay attaches on the foredeck behind the forestay (usually with some form of highfield lever). This is for attaching storm sails or secondary headsails when running. The babystay is attached just in front of the mast and is part of the rigging and is not meant to have sails flown from it !
Chris

 

[charles_reed]

Running backstays and a two panel mast, definitely the inner forestay is part of the rig.

You could remast - about 1x1.5 the cross sectional mast area will probably reduce the need for the runners and the inner forestay.
Will she sail as a twin headsail sloop? Reduce the need for the genoa.

 

[Dougal]

We have baby stay too, and it does cause issues with genny. After a few tests without it, I remounted it, as there were definite signs of mast 'panting'. Our baby stay is also there for creating pre bend.

 

[William_H]

The concept of mast staying is that each of several po9ints up the mast is stayed ie positively located in both sideways and fore and aft directions. So typically top and middle of the mast are fixed in location by for the top cap shrouds forestay and backstay. The middle point is a bit more tricky. it is often located by intermediate side stays which go to chain plates aft of the mast. So that they pull the middle of the mast backeards. This must be counteracted by a bay or inner forestay going to that same middle point. or twin intermediate sidestays going to chain plates forward of the mast (so pulling forward) or by using spreaders which sweep aft so loean on the cap shrouds pushing the middle forward against the aft mounted intermediate sidestays.
Now the dimensions of the mast particularly the fore and aft dimension will provide some inherent stiffness so dinghies often have intermediate sidestays or just spreaders relying on the mast stiffness along with lighter total loads.
Of course much depends on the load on the mast ie wind stength and sail area. So if the baot is sailing gently with no heel then mast stiffness should be sufficient to stop the mast crumpling middle backwards. But as soon as you have any real loads you want that middle located very positively. So you might choose to risk disconnecting the inner forestay in light winds when tacking a lot reconnecting when wind comes up. Meanwhile a lot of people use plastic piping to cover the inner forestay to ease the jib around it when tacking.
Now it has been suggested that OP has running backstays which are not used but must be used if another inner forestay is connected up to fit a storm sail. This inner forestay might go to about 3/4 mast height. Now this inner forestay with a jib on can exert real loads on this point of the mast midway beteen the spreaders and the top. This point should be pulled backwards against this inner forestay load by stays going to that point. These are running backstays where the windward one is tightened up while the leeward one is loose when you tack or gybe you must release one and tighten the other. So needs another crerw or only used in open water with min. tacking/gybing.
So as said only an expert can suggest if you wioll get away with releasing the inner forestay. I would suggest a tackle or high field lever such that it can easily be attached or removed and tied back to the mast. I would then suggest real caution in sailing without the inner forestay. To do so in a gust risks the mast crumpling.
I know my mast relies on aft swept spreaders and one failed and swung forward so losing forward push in the middle and that mast was don in milliseconds. good luck olewill

 

[J Neeves]

To reduce snagging of sheets on anything, including an inner forestay, we sew our 2 sheets together. The joint is hollow tape, originally we used nylon, now dyneema. We insert the sheets into the tube (so tube dimensions are dictated by how close a fit you can get), sew the sheets by hand, using dyneema braided fishing line, leaving the middle of the tube 'empty' we then cow hitch the middle of the tube to the clew - the 'joint', or knot, is very small. The sewn length is about 150mm for each sheet.

We have been using the technique now for 25 years and have it on both current headsails, screecher and 150% genoa.

Jonathan

edit, we also have an, optional extra, inner forestay on a high field lever for a storm jib (but leave it permanently attached/installed) close edit

 

[Merlin38]

The baby stay is there to ensure the mast does not bend aft in the middle section and give you a baggy mainsail. Twin lowers can do the same thing. Consult a rigger.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

We have a baby stay, which is kept tied back out of the way. If needed, to use the storm jib, it is a matter of moments to connect it, using the (Highfield?) lever attachment.

+1

It's our bikes tied to the shrouds that get in the way of putting the babystay back on its highfield lever mounting for 'storage'.

The bobstay also has to be parked on a clip halfway along the spreader..... that really is a contest when underway!

A large tube sounds a good idea.

I used to tie a cow hitch in a continuous sheet to my genoa, but I believe that's frowned upon??



S.

 

[sjdtuk]

Any chance of a picture?

 

[J Neeves]

Cow hitch on genoa - an issue is that if you want to take the sheets off you need to pull all the sheet through the hitch to disengage. They can be difficult to loosen up to take off - but works for us.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Any chance of a picture?

of the Original Posting Rig?

The Bikes on a deck?

S.

 

[Robert Wilson]

+1

It's our bikes tied to the shrouds that get in the way of putting the babystay back on its highfield lever mounting for 'storage'.

The bobstay also has to be parked on a clip halfway along the spreader..... that really is a contest when underway!

A large tube sounds a good idea.

I used to tie a cow hitch in a continuous sheet to my genoa, but I believe that's frowned upon??



S.

Please forgive my ignorance, but would you please explain what you mean here. My experience of bobstays and bowsprits (long) is some thirty+ years ago, so perhaps it is a "modern thing" with boats using cruising chutes etc.
As I said, forgive me for being ignorant, or misunderstanding.
Thank you.
RW

 

[concentrik]

Any chance of a picture?

I'll find one...

I don't know how to embed it, sorry. But it's quite detailed so you can zoom in!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByqldTW_ds7lWFJQdVFCQi1PcVk/view?usp=sharing

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Please forgive my ignorance, but would you please explain what you mean here. My experience of bobstays and bowsprits (long) is some thirty+ years ago, so perhaps it is a "modern thing" with boats using cruising chutes etc.
As I said, forgive me for being ignorant, or misunderstanding.
Thank you.
RW

Apologies to you Robert, bobstay was accidentally put into my text for babystay.

The hook on the spreader merely catches the babystay (not an easy procedure ) to keep it from flailing around and to take up some of its length for when it's attached to its parking position on the deck inside the shrouds via the highfield lever.

Hope that sorts the misunderstanding,

S.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I could say myself if I knew what they were and how to tell

The photos off the Alibi web site show lower stays aft and forwards of the mast. These are in tension against each other and should be set up pretty tight. It looks like the inner forestay shown in not a baby stay, which is used when there are no lower stays forward of the mast. This inner forestay should be attached to the mast about a foot below the main forestay, and was probably added to the boat. It can be used to fly a storm jib.

If that is the case, you should be able to take it off. Most people would have a detachable lever mounting so that it can be refitted quickly when required.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Apologies to you Robert, bobstay was been accidentally been put into my text for babystay.

The hook on the spreader merely catches the babystay (not an easy procedure ) to keep it from flailing around and to take up some of its length for when it's attached to its parking position on the deck inside the shrouds via the highfield lever.

Hope that sorts the misunderstanding,

S.

Gotcha, thanks.:encouragement:
Had nightmarish visions of the bobstay being wound-up to the spreaders. Glad I'm not SO far out of touch with modern boats