Info needed on Thames 'A' raters

Lilldraken

New Member
Joined
27 Apr 2013
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2
Location
Warsaw, Poland
www.classicauto.pl
Hello forum members!

I'm a journalist from Poland looking for some information about our Thames 'A' rater. Before posting here I'd tried to contact the Thames Sailing Club, but unfortunately their website is down. Hopefully there some 'A' rater experts here willing to share some of their knowledge... :)

A few years ago my father, whose family has long traditions in inland sailing, purchased a rather sorry looking Thames 'A' rater in Austria with the intention of restoring it and eventually sailing on calm waters for recreational purposes. The boat, known as "Albatross", had been sailed on Ebensee (I think) for at least a few decades under sail number X-383. Other than the previous owner's story, the only indication of the boat's heritage was a brass plate affixed to the back of the cockpit, stating that it was built in 1904 by Alfred Burgoine. We have rebuilt the hull from the ground up but unfortunately very little of the original wood could be reused in the restoration due to decades of neglect and decay.

Despite our troubles during the rebuild I'm happy to report that the restoration is nearing it's end, with the hull now enclosed and awaiting paint. At the moment we're debating whether to leave it in its natural wooden finish and clearcoat it, or perhaps paint the sides dark blue (see pictures below).

Other than a few articles there is very little information about these boats on the Internet, so any hints about who to contact or where to look would be more than welcome. My father has some documentation given to us by the previous owners, I'll post its soon as sift through his archives. In a few weeks' time we'll also roll the boat out of its workshop and take some pictures of the finished hull. Hopefully that will help us decipher its past.

Meanwhile, here are some period pictures from the previous owner's family album:

3524qci.jpg


ot2pah.jpg


65pxl5.jpg


33f87wg.jpg


25z2d1x.jpg


110g9k5.jpg


Isn't she lovely?

Kind regards,

Tony
Warsaw, Poland
 
They are raced at a sailing club on the thames in surbiton in surrey. It's just off the Portsmouth road between thames ditton and Kingston but I Cant remember the name . They used to have a mould for a fiberglass version sat in their car park . Once a year they go up to Bourne End sailing club for a week of racing try contacting them.
 
Yes they are just down from Thames Ditton Marina. Quite why these magnificent sailing craft should be cavorting about in the narrow constraints of the Thames is beyond me but nevertheless they are a lovely sight to see.

Because that is where they were designed to race............Two were built by Townsends Bourne End. Vagabond lived a Bourne End when she was built. At the outbreak WW2 Vagabond was put on the rack in the Eagle boathouse and stayed there untouched for over 30 years.
 
I don't think she's an A rater. IIRC the A raters are centerboard boats, also the mast looks a bit on the short side.

Maybe a 1/2 rater? My antique racing books are all in store, otherwise I'd have a look see.
 
Because that is where they were designed to race............Two were built by Townsends Bourne End. Vagabond lived a Bourne End when she was built. At the outbreak WW2 Vagabond was put on the rack in the Eagle boathouse and stayed there untouched for over 30 years.

Interesting. They look like they would be ideal on a lovely big lake.
 
Interesting. They look like they would be ideal on a lovely big lake.

Rig was designed to be tall, sailing on the Bourne End reach can be challenging due to fickle airs caused by trees, surely you have experienced pushing your way upsteam through the boats racing on a Sunday morning! Tall rig helped overcome effect of trees.
 
Fascinating. I am the owner of Thames A Rater Tara, sail number 23. The photograph certainly looks like an A Rater hull. However as has been pointed out, an A Rater is usually a centreboard boat but there is nothing in the rules to stop you from having one with a keel. Apart from Wings which was sailed in Switzerland on Lac Leman for a few years I was unaware that any of the class had found their way outside the UK - although five are going to sail on the Seine at the beginning of next month. The rig has developed over the years to the point where most boats have a mast about 43 feet high and a sail area of either 350 or 385 square feet. This is an ideal rig for sailing on the Thames but is not suitable for open water (as Wings discovered on Lac Leman). Common sense would dictate having a keel for those conditions.

The early history of Raters on the Thames is a bit unclear but there are now 23 A Raters of which 11 survive from those built before 1914, several by Alfred Burgoine. I have not been able to find a record of one named Albtross.

Z4283228.jpg
 
Thames A Raters

Hello My name is Graham and I am the Secretary for the Rater Association based in Surbiton Surrey UK. We have some 16 or so in commission based mainly at 2 clubs on the River Thames, Thames Sailing Club and Upper Thames Saling. The Thames Sailing Club web site is running but the Rater information is out of date. Burgoigne was a noted builder of the class and we still have a couple of early examples albeit rebuilt. Our rules permit a maximum sail area 385 sq ft 35 sq metres and we carry a large pivot centreboard. Masts and spars are carbon fibre today. Hope this helps you and if you wish to make contact at some time we would be pleased to hear from you.

One observation from the photographs is that the hull appears slightly smaller closer to a B or 1/2 Rater size. Club
Hello forum members!

I'm a journalist from Poland looking for some information about our Thames 'A' rater. Before posting here I'd tried to contact the Thames Sailing Club, but unfortunately their website is down. Hopefully there some 'A' rater experts here willing to share some of their knowledge... :)

A few years ago my father, whose family has long traditions in inland sailing, purchased a rather sorry looking Thames 'A' rater in Austria with the intention of restoring it and eventually sailing on calm waters for recreational purposes. The boat, known as "Albatross", had been sailed on Ebensee (I think) for at least a few decades under sail number X-383. Other than the previous owner's story, the only indication of the boat's heritage was a brass plate affixed to the back of the cockpit, stating that it was built in 1904 by Alfred Burgoine. We have rebuilt the hull from the ground up but unfortunately very little of the original wood could be reused in the restoration due to decades of neglect and decay.

Despite our troubles during the rebuild I'm happy to report that the restoration is nearing it's end, with the hull now enclosed and awaiting paint. At the moment we're debating whether to leave it in its natural wooden finish and clearcoat it, or perhaps paint the sides dark blue (see pictures below).

Other than a few articles there is very little information about these boats on the Internet, so any hints about who to contact or where to look would be more than welcome. My father has some documentation given to us by the previous owners, I'll post its soon as sift through his archives. In a few weeks' time we'll also roll the boat out of its workshop and take some pictures of the finished hull. Hopefully that will help us decipher its past.

Meanwhile, here are some period pictures from the previous owner's family album:

3524qci.jpg


ot2pah.jpg


65pxl5.jpg


33f87wg.jpg


25z2d1x.jpg


110g9k5.jpg


Isn't she lovely?

Kind regards,

Tony
Warsaw, Poland
 
The Dragon was named Bluebottle and won a bronze at Melbourne in 1956. She had the same sail number (193) as Coweslip and is now in the museum at Falmouth. I sailed Bluebottle quite often in 1961 and 1962.
 
The Dragon was named Bluebottle and won a bronze at Melbourne in 1956. She had the same sail number (193) as Coweslip and is now in the museum at Falmouth. I sailed Bluebottle quite often in 1961 and 1962.

Any idea what happened to 'Coweslip'?
 
The Dragon was named Bluebottle and won a bronze at Melbourne in 1956. She had the same sail number (193) as Coweslip and is now in the museum at Falmouth. I sailed Bluebottle quite often in 1961 and 1962.
Jeez! You must be as old as me. In those days I was a young whipper snapper frequenting the Royal London, Royal Corinthian and of course the Island Sailing Club. Never that fond of sailing I mainly held with the Power Boat Racing fraternity.
 
I learned to sail in 1952 and taught my stepbrother in 1953. For the past several years I've been the oldest regular helm in the A Rater fleet.

An earlier post mentions the Raters from TSC going up to Bourne End every year. They're at Upper Thames SC now and if you want to watch them sailing over the next few days the races start at 1125 and 1525. The last race is the Queen's Cup at 1255 on Wednesday. It was presented to UTSC by Queen Victoria in 1893. www.utsc.org.uk/ for further details

It would be interesting to know if the OP has found any of this to be of value.
 
Hello forum members,

I really appreciate all your input. The restoration is almost complete (we're scheduled for an ending 'ceremony' this sunday). Once that is done I'm going to take a few photographs of the finished boat. Below I've linked a full imgur album with all the pictures of our boat that we've collected over the years. Please note that there are some other boats in there that my dad photographed out of interest. Also, here's a part of a message that I sent to to Jack Ross Gifford of G.L. Watson & Co. Ltd., who very generously offered his help in trying to identify our boat.

She was built by Alfred Burgoine and laid down in 1904 (at least that is what the brass plaque from the back of the cockpit says). She's 876cm from stem to stern and is roughly 172cm wide at her widest point. As noted in the original thread she has a keel rather than a centreboard, which makes me think she might not actually be an 'A' Rater. However, as one of the posters noted, there are no rules that can stop the owner from converting the boat to run a keel, but as far as I know there was no visual indication on the inside that such a conversion had ever been done on our boat.

Link to the album - http://1904rater.imgur.com/all/ As I'm writing this there's still more than 100 images being uploaded and it will be some time before they can all be seen.

Unfortunately due to my father's illness we won't be able to sail the boat, which means that in the coming months she will have to go up for sale. Given how much time and effort we've spent on her it's going to be a sad end, but I'd rather see someone enjoy her than witness her go into storage once more. Any help in discovering her true identity would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Tony.
/Warsaw, Poland/
 
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