Incident on Loch Fyne?

markhomer said:
You would think it would be a good training excercise and pr for the nearby submarine base
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That has crossed a few people’s minds I think. What we have heard is that nothing much can happen until Police Scotland and the MAIB have concluded their investigations. Everyone is hoping that Loch Fyne gives up her catch and despite the near gale today, the fishing fleets from Tarbert, Carradale and Campletown continued their search. The community has raised a huge amount so far, £125,000 at last count. If anyone would like to contribute, please click on the link. https://www.clydefishermenstrust.com/the-nancy-glen-campaign
 
adwuk said:
Lows and then highs of emotion in Tarbert today with this news:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-the-nancy-glen-investigation

followed by this news:

https://news.gov.scot/news/statement-on-nancy-glen

I wonder how thorough the MAIB report can actually be without examining the boat, but at least their survey work should enable a faster recovery by others.
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Perhaps with the information from the survivor and the survey they must have enough info to complete a report.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Update: the Nancy Glen has been raised and two bodies recovered from her. The lifting operation was funded by the Scottish Government and is estimated to have cost around £1m.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43760043
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That is a good outcome for the families.

I have reservations on this course of action because it is inconsistently applied. The bodies of others from other incidents, not associated with fishing, have not been recovered. They too deserve to have at least some attempt at recovery but there was no one to press the government for a recovery operation.
 
I am not sure about this, in the end it smelt like a political decision to me, there were bound to be votes in it. The campaign to bring them back was a strong one but the only benefit is in the actual funeral, a grave in a cemetery in Tarbert versus one 400 feet down out in Loch Fyne, the latter would please me as much as the hole in the ground. In this case the families knew what had happened and where their loved ones lay, deep enough to be safe from most forms of disturbance, many lost sailors never have that certainty.
The Squeek, (Argyllshire Advertiser) our local newspaper pushed very hard for this just as they have pushed to spend millions to get the radius of the road bend at Strone Point increased because of the number of visiting bikers who die there, trouble is that making the bend faster may not mean less fatalities, I suspect it will be the opposite.
 
£1m pounds to recover the remains of two poor people does not make any sense to me either but at least the wreck is removed (I assume) and no longer another piece of debris on the seabed.
 
Perhaps one should consider that the average total cost per road accident fatality is now over £2million (Dept of Transport stats). I am happy for a government, whose citizens benefit from the lives of fishermen in their dangerous occupation, to pickup the cost of retrieval.

We have seen too often the additional distress caused to sea-faring families when their loved ones do not come home.


To be economically hard, the £1million costs have been shared out amongst businesses and employees, so some of it will be recovered by taxes.
 
Quandary said:
I am not sure about this, in the end it smelt like a political decision to me, there were bound to be votes in it. The campaign to bring them back was a strong one but the only benefit is in the actual funeral, a grave in a cemetery in Tarbert versus one 400 feet down out in Loch Fyne, the latter would please me as much as the hole in the ground.
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If it were me, I think that knowing that the body of somebody I loved was relatively close to hand would be worse than if it was a long way off. We Scots have only paid 20p per head to bring the boat up, and I'm OK with that.
 
JumbleDuck said:
If it were me, I think that knowing that the body of somebody I loved was relatively close to hand would be worse than if it was a long way off. We Scots have only paid 20p per head to bring the boat up, and I'm OK with that.
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:encouragement:

Humm yes I agree with this posting, having lived a while on a Coastal Village / Township I understand the grieving that that Village Families endure, knowing that they plus others from that Village often sail across the graves of others lost at Sea, tis not easy, its also a lifelong Grief.
 
mainsail1 said:
at least the wreck is removed (I assume) and no longer another piece of debris on the seabed.
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The wreck has been removed and I believe is now in Portavadie on the barge that lifted her. She was on the edge of a foul ground area in any case, and so was not going to cause any more of a problem than already existed.

JumbleDuck said:
If it were me, I think that knowing that the body of somebody I loved was relatively close to hand would be worse than if it was a long way off. We Scots have only paid 20p per head to bring the boat up, and I'm OK with that.
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Me too. We could see where she sank from the village.
 
The inconsistency and hypocrisy of the SNP government on the matter of recovering remains of those lost at sea is galling, which makes it nothing more than a piece of political expediency as far as I am concerned. The crew of MV Cemfiord were all lost when the vessel sank in the Pentland Firth in shallower water. No calls to recover those bodies from Salmond or anyone else, a search, a scan and declaration that it is a grave. Even in Nigeria, divers are sent to recover the dead from a tug boat sinking in 30m of water. No votes lost here.

From the Scotsman

Tony Redding, spokesman for owner Hamburg-based owners Brise, said: “As far as we are concerned, the vessel should be undisturbed. It should be regarded as a sea grave.” He said it was a difficult issue for the families. Mr Redding added: “It is widely understood in the maritime community that it is inappropriate for others to risk themselves to recover bodies. The vessel is lying more than 200ft deep. The currents are strong there and visibility is extremely poor. A period of good weather would also be needed and that is unlikely at this time of year.” A private memorial service will be held in Poland later this month.

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/wreck-of-cemfjord-to-be-left-as-sea-grave-1-3691504
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I am glad that the relatives of the fishing boat have bodies to bury and perhaps they will get some sense of closure.

Cemfiord crew: -

The crew were master Pawel Chruscinski, 43, chief officer Jaroslaw Orlov, 45, chief engineer Roman Tamas, 56, and seamen Henryk Dubanowski, 55, Tomasz Kwiatkowski, 31, Artur Podrazka, 24, and Artur Wegorek, also 24, all from Poland. The eighth member of the crew was Filipino seaman Jerome Narvasa, 32.
 
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BlowingOldBoots said:
The crew of MV Cemfiord were all lost when the vessel sank in the Pentland Firth in shallower water. No calls to recover those bodies from Salmond or anyone else, a search, a scan and declaration that it is a grave..
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Was there any request for recovery from the families? As I wrote, for me it would be knowing the body was near which would hurt - perhaps Polish and Filipino families would feel similarly, and accept a sea grave off Scotland. Also, if it costs a million pounds to recover a small on teh Clyde fishing vessel, how much would it cost to recover a 272 foot long ship weighing 4000+ tonnes and lying inverted in 270' of water 12 miles offshore?
 
Surely if you do it for one loss, it should be done for all?
The cost of recovery should not be a factor. From where you stand, an extra few hundred pounds on your income tax each year would be well worth it just to repatriate the deceased to their next of kin.
Or do I detect double standards or muddled thinking?
 
We recovered the accomodation module from the Piper Alpha and the Alexander Keiland was recovered, both to remove bodies at significantly more cost.

There is likely many known graves at sea just outside ports. However, that’s not the point.
 
mainsail1 said:
Surely if you do it for one loss, it should be done for all?
The cost of recovery should not be a factor. From where you stand, an extra few hundred pounds on your income tax each year would be well worth it just to repatriate the deceased to their next of kin.
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I think it depends on the situation and the wishes of the relatives. Sometimes, sadly, it may just be too expensive or technically impossible to recover. Some problems just can't be solved by throwing money at them.

BlowingOldBoots said:
We recovered the accomodation module from the Piper Alpha and the Alexander Keiland was recovered, both to remove bodies at significantly more cost.
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Fair point. So ... did the families of the MV Cemfiord crew members ask for their bodies to be recovered and, if so, what was the response?
 
and here's me instructing the family to dump my body at the tip and save the cost of a funeral.

It's too easy to spend other peoples money.
 
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