In staff furling?

[ChrisE]

We at ScuttleButt HQ have been wondering what to buy our many yachting friends for Christmas and inspired by a couple of recent threads have come up with an instaff furling system for ensigns. What we need to know is:
1. will the mechanism jam at crucial times, such as when trying to dip to one of Her Majesty's finest?
2. will they take both blue and red ensigns?
3. which COLREG would they be covered by?
4. would I get a reduction on my marina charges for using one?
5. could a make one with a fairy liquid bottle and some old toilet roll centres?
6. which knot should I use to tie the ensign to the furling mechanism?
7. if I was to change to a catamaran which hull should I fly it from?
0. one for powerskipper, should the staff be a tasteful pink or a manly steel grey?

I'm sure that we can the answers on this forum.

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[StugeronSteve]

Re: Also to be considered....

.....the issue of increased windage. Will this be an advantage when manoeuvering within a marina, ie. storm jib up the jacksie effect, or will the installation present an unacceptable broaching risk when at sea?

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[Aeolus_IV]

Re: Also to be considered....

It strikes me that some sort of "batten" would be required along the top edge of the ensign to ensure smooth and trouble free operation of the furling staff and ensign combination. My first thought was something along the lines of a section of metal tape measure which would roll up inside the staff, but upon "flying" the ensign would pop into a ridged batton. Practical?

At least in the event of a major ensign jam, you can furle the artical away by motoring/sailing about in circles and leave sorting out the resulting jam when finally moored up.

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Also to be considered....

Do you think that I should use a freefooted ensign or a small boom? Also, I had been wondering about a FVBE, fully vertically battened ensign with roller cars.

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[Benbow]

But, you don't dip by furling. So while I can see that this could be a valuable contribution, I would suggest adding a motorised dipper. This could communicate by an NMEA sentence over a data line to your AIS system and thus be fully automated. When a warship was detected within the appropriate range, the ensign would automatically dip. I don't see any major technical difficulties here, however I cannot yet see how it could detect the dipping (or otherwise) of the warship's ensign and thus know when to go back up. This is due to the present lack of 'ensign status' in the broadcast AIS data and is clearly a huge technical oversight and I suggest you bring it to the attention of the appropriate authorities.

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[jimi]

Re: Also to be considered....

What effect will this have on the PY rating?

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[ChrisE]

Re: Also to be considered....

As you know I'm a technoklutz, what does PY stand for? Not some kind of ghastly stability curve calculation?

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[ChrisE]

Ah, you've raised a very interesting point, I've long thought that NMEA sentences ought to be called phrases, because they are punctuated by semi-colons.

As to the AIS suggestions, you're bonkers, everyone knows that the navy will turn off AIS at the smae time as the US turn off GPS so the instaff furling won't know what to dip at, let alone where it is.

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[jimi]

Re: Also to be considered....

Sumfink to do with a posterior yankee, which means that if you fly a sail disguised as a flag from the rear of the boat, outwith tight marina berthing situations, it will degrade your racing performance á la Salcombe yawl.

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[Aeolus_IV]

Re: Also to be considered....

This raises a good point - should the design be directed towards an "in-boom" style of furling - which could also be percived as a dipping mechanism? This would allow for full horizontal battens and so control that loose leech you so offten get with an unbattend ensign.

Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Also to be considered....

Ah, so this device could turn a craft into some kind of ketch, I see. Now with a leap of imagination we could use this as a vane for the monitor then could furl it as the wind got up. I believe that Francis Chichester had a similar mechanism on his self steering gear. God, this forum is good for technical advice.

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[Mudplugger]

What a superb idea! just think of all of those Ensigns being furled simultaneously as the sun goes down, when the senior vessel takes their's in for the night, and broadcast's the ensign furling signal. Re; item 6, It would seem to me (IMHO) that this is a prime project for Blue Peter, but wouldn't toilet roll tubes get a bit wet without some proper traditional varnish?

<hr width=100% size=1>Tony W.

 

[Robin]

You could make one out of a cut down piece of one of those beginners/charterer's in-mast rigs when they pass their YM and upgrade to proper reefing and a full sized sail!/forums/images/icons/smile.gif As has beeen suggested it would also allow the setting of a 'stern sail' for marina manouvres in MABs. I'm not sure about the automatic dipping mechanism though, may need help from something in rubber. It would of course be available in silver or gold to match the bath taps. You would probably need to upgrade the electrics for the motorised version, extra batteries and an Adverc and maybe a wind generator mounted on top.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Also to be considered....

I hadn't thought of this, so we could go for FHBE. I think that we should also consider jimi's point about the PY rating. This would mean that the ensign would have to be either a vane, see above, or under no tension and allowed to swing to the wind, bit like a sail wing but with no driving effect. Snowleopard knows all about them (but with drive of course).

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[Robin]

Re: Also to be considered....

It seems that in-boom is the chosen way on superyachts these days, so the design mechanism would exist, though a boom stuck out at the stern would attract a bigger berth fee - unless of course it could be scandalised.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[fireball]

The automatic lower and raise is quite simple -
AIS shows a warship in the vicinity - sends lower command to staff
Also sends "dip ensign" signal over DSC to warship.
Warships DSC receives dip ensign signal and waits 5 seconds before issuing a "dip ensign" command to staff
Waits 10 seconds (their ensign is bigger u know) and then sends another signal back via DSC to the pleasure craft.

There you go - found a use for DSC!!

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[powerskipper]

Can we have the staff a silvery pink, you know those clever ones that change colour as the light changes on them,


ooooooo


what about a boat like that /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[aitchw]

I thought it might be nicer for you if you had a nice piece of Swish curtain guide across the top to draw the ensign in when appropriate instead of all this boaty stuff. Tie backs too if you want them. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

What a coincidence that you should raise this right now as we at Ship Hydrodynamic Investigations and Technologies have recently completed testing such a system which we have called Viaganaut. It does not rely on battens or other artificial means, raising and furling of the ensign being achieved by entirely natural methods.

Manufacturing rights have been sold to Hoodwinked Sailmakers and Seldom Sparmakers; already one large AWB builder, Bravo Yachts, has ordered 2,000 (but these are of reduced specification). That order means that 99% of all new yachts on the market will be being fitted with this system by the end of next month.

Forum members will be able to see Viaganaut for themselves at LBS, but if unable to visit you can be assured that the rigorous testing in the Southern Ocean proved the system to be faultless. On average the ensign was dipped (furled) 27 times each day to passing Australian Navy vessels searching for lost yachtsmen. There was not one jamb up with our system, while it was observed that the Navy vessels often fumbled their dip in response.

Oh yes, we have arranged for a special discount for any forum member who places an order in the next month, just quote the special code "Cats Pyjamas" and you will get a 33% discount on your order.

John
Ship Hydrodynamic Investigations and Technologies

 

[powerskipper]

tie backs with those nice Fancy knotts, would be good and still be boaty, /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
still like my idea of a pinky metal pole /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif