In mast furling Mainsail - retrofit

[Boeingdr]

Has anybody retrofitted in mast furling to there boat. If so how easy is it to do? Does it require a new mast? What does it cost? What is the best system?
As an alternative how good are the new in boom furling units? wHAT DO THESE COST.
I am thinking about fiting a system to my Moody29.

 

[argus]

Facnor behind the mast reefing system

Five years ago I fitted the Facnor behind the mast reefing system to my Colvic Watson 26. Crusader sails supplied the kit and a set of sails.
I have modest DIY ability and found the kit and instructions sufficient, at the time of fitting I replaced standing and running rigging.
The mainsail has jammed in the mast tube only once and it was due to my error, someone at my boatyard showed me how to free it.
My boat is a motorsailer ( a motor boat with auxilliary sails ) so I cannot comment on sailing performance but the system for me scores on convenience and safety.
I would advise that you look in marinas at other setups and talk to as many owners as possible.
Good luck
Peter

 

[saxondale]

Saw Easyreef on a boat. rivited onto the mast and worked a dream on the 26 footer.

http://www.maxiroach.com/easyreef.asp

no idea of cost.

 

[srm]

Have you considered the weight you are permanently adding and how it will reduced the boats stability? This can become significant on smaller boats. Only realised how much after covering basic stability in an RYA evening class. One of the students then came and told me about the "improvements" he had made to his boat, including bolt on mainsail reefing, and how tender it now is.

 

[sailorman]

Have you considered the weight you are permanently adding and how it will reduced the boats stability? This can become significant on smaller boats. Only realised how much after covering basic stability in an RYA evening class. One of the students then came and told me about the "improvements" he had made to his boat, including bolt on mainsail reefing, and how tender it now is.

Why do folk want to make Slo Boats Slower

 

[DanTribe]

Has anybody retrofitted in mast furling to there boat. If so how easy is it to do? Does it require a new mast? What does it cost? What is the best system?
As an alternative how good are the new in boom furling units? wHAT DO THESE COST.
I am thinking about fiting a system to my Moody29.

Don't do it.
My UFO had an Easyreef fitted when I bougt it and I gave it the benefit of the doubt for two seasons. When I eventually dumped it, it was like having a completely new boat.
The gear is lying in a boatyard in Burnham if anyone wants it.

 

[boathead]

In mast furling headsail - retrofit

Five years ago I fitted the Facnor behind the mast reefing system to my Colvic Watson 26. Crusader sails supplied the kit and a set of sails.
I have modest DIY ability and found the kit and instructions sufficient, at the time of fitting I replaced standing and running rigging.
The mainsail has jammed in the mast tube only once and it was due to my error, someone at my boatyard showed me how to free it.
My boat is a motorsailer ( a motor boat with auxilliary sails ) so I cannot comment on sailing performance but the system for me scores on convenience and safety.
I would advise that you look in marinas at other setups and talk to as many owners as possible.
Good luck
Peter

My Westerly 33 has a Facnor fitted, no need to change mast, and if you have plenty money then you can just take it off if you don't like it (dont sell your old mainsail) and pretend it never happened!

I sail singlehanded and I'm not the agile man I used to be, as long as you take your time on both unfurling and furling it's unlikely you'll have a problem. They do add weight, the new main will have less area, the Westerly 33 aint no racer though, and and I hate to 'push' my boat so it suits me though I am still wary of it, and aware that there seems a tendancy to being a wee bit tender, however (my home sailing ground is Far North/Orkney/Shetland) it's not given reason to removed and that's through both summer and winter sailing.........no jokes please....... you do honestly get some beautiful winter sailing up here, you just need to know where to escape in a hurry!

 

[BrianH]

Has anybody retrofitted in mast furling to there boat. If so how easy is it to do? Does it require a new mast? What does it cost? What is the best system?
As an alternative how good are the new in boom furling units? wHAT DO THESE COST.

I am in the painful process of correcting some problems with my newly installed in-boom system - or rather the sailmaker and his rigger are. It has completely ruined my cruising plans for this year.

I had heard many horror stories about in-mast mainsail furling; the weight aloft and the safety aspects if (some say when) they jam, leaving a large sail area out in strong winds. Modern systems seem more reliable but that is because they are incorporated from the beginning in integrated masts designed for furling. I was considering a retro-fit system and didn't want to buy a new mast so began trawling around for some advice, mainly on this forum. There is a wealth of valuable information here but, unfortunately, when I access my subscribed threads only those posted since the forum change appear.

On my relatively new (to me) boat I had a very old two-line reefing system and needed a new mainsail anyway. Before that, on a Trapper 500, I had the old rotating boom system, which was dreadful. High on the list of problems was the need to be head to wind to prevent the sail luff from being pressed against the mast groove until friction of the sail jammed it and on the Trapper was made worse by a through-the-mast reefing handle with a universal joint at the gooseneck. This joint could only rotate at a limited degree away from in-line, again needing the ship being kept head to wind - no easy task for a single-hander, as I usually am.

It is only recently that in-boom mainsail furling has ventured from the maga-yachts with motor furling to more modest and simpler sailing vessels. About five - I think - world-wide manufacturers provide their systems at varying prices (most cheaper than having to source a new mast for an in-mast system) and all have their proprietary systems while the principle remains similar. Most of the smaller, popular production in-boom furlers rely upon a furling line drum, axially positioned either in front of the mast (Leisure Furl) or inside the boom housing, either adjacent to the luff (Profurl) or aft of the clew (Schaefer).

The Leisure Furl drum is forward of the mast and theoretically accessible to clear a jam but the design, in my opinion, is not to consider over the Profurl due to the universal-joint gooseneck and absence of articulating luff track, which will certainly make it difficult to reef when off the wind and it is blowing strongly - the main problem with traditional roller-boom design that I was trying to avoid.

Finally, I decided that the Profurl system was the most cost-effective and efficient system for my requirements and I placed my order last year. After a frustrating period of waiting and installation through this summer it is still not working. The problem is that the luff, as it rolls, has too much material to fit the available space and it begins to fold up hard against the forward end of the boom shell until it jams.

The Profurl manual has many pages devoted to how the sail should be cut for a correct rolling furl. The sail has to be quite flat and the luff cut in an 'S' form so that, as the sail rolls onto the boom, the luff moves aft then forward in order to not pile up on itself. The full length battens have to be at a precise angle to the luff so that they roll perfectly parallel to the boom. They have to be a precise length from each other dependent on the diameter of the rotating boom section, to not stack on top of each other. The reefing line and the halyard have to be hauled and freed in a controlled manner so that a modicum of tension is kept on the luff - too much and the sail is pulled forward, too little and the sail descends too quickly and rolling is too loose. All in all, it seems a complicated set of parameters with plenty to go wrong.

And, as expected with me, Mr Murphy's best friend, it does. I had already found that folding and jamming were inevitable when reefing on port tack. This was because the boom rolled clockwise (viewed from aft) and the sail was forced away from the rotating section by the wind, ensuring a loose and sloppy roll. With the wind on the starboard side the sail was pressed hard onto the boom as it furled to make a compact roll. I have always practiced mainsail reefing on starboard tack in order to have normal right of way while busy at the mast and unable to easily change tack, but I was not happy at being dictated by the system to follow that rigidly when perhaps conditions did not make it favourable.

The sailmaker admits that there is need for some serious adjustments. His initial conclusion was that a Profurl Halyard Brake is necessary and that he would shorten the full-length battens, which he believes are causing pressure and distorting the luff at their forward end (note the kink between the 2nd and 3rd battens in the image below, emphasized by the decorative stripe).

About the latter I am sceptical. As for the former, I had originally asked if this component should be incorporated at the time of ordering last year - the answer was that it was not necessary on my size of installation. Now, it is clear that halyard control is critical for correct furling and it should be retro-fitted. It is a set of friction wheels contained in a housing that must be set into the mast where the halyard exits. More cost and waiting for fitment.

Would I do it again? Definitely NOT.

 

[Tranona]

I don't think anybody makes a retrofit in mast sytem now - mainly for the reasons recounted here. The market has also disappeared because there are so many boats on the secondhand market now which have purpose designed systems and older boats cost so much to convert that it is not economic to do it. Reefing systems have also improved so on a smaller boat such as a 29ft there is little advantage from the ease of handling point of view.

 

[meandraft]

We had Easyreef/Maxiroach retro-fitted to a Seawolf 26. This was effectively a behind mast system. As we never sailed the boat with it's original slab reefing system I can't really say whether it affected the stability. We occasionally had problems unfurling the sail but it always furled away easily. Friction in the turning blocks seems to be the main problem. The Maxiroach sail always had a nice shape to it though.

 

[bromleybysea]

I can't imagine why anyone would retrofit such a system to a relatively small boat like a Moody 29. For a fraction of the cost it is possible to fit single-line reefing which works with none of the disadvantages of a roller main.

 

[seanfoster]

I had a facnor system on a seamaster 925 I used to own, it was installed (by the previous owner) by crusader and a new crusader main to go with it.

Never really liked it, and when unfurling the top 10 or so ft of sail used to get trapped in the groove of the roller housing, If I bounced up and down on the end of the boom it would eventually come out.

Also it never sailed particularly well and the foot was very difficult to tension correctly so you got an overly full bottom third of the sail.

 

[samwise]

Has anybody retrofitted in mast furling to there boat. If so how easy is it to do? Does it require a new mast? What does it cost? What is the best system?
As an alternative how good are the new in boom furling units? wHAT DO THESE COST.
I am thinking about fiting a system to my Moody29.

You will find that this subject provokes almost as much controversy as anchors and equally polarised views. There will be the usual gloomy warnings about extra weight aloft, compromised righting moment and stability curves etc. Certainly on a boat not originally designed for such a system, there will be an effect, but I have to say that we had an EasyReef on our old Sadler 29 and it worked beautifully and I was never aware of a serious stability problem.It never jammed either.
It is a boon to the single or short handed sailor and the EasyReef MaxiRoach arrangement with vertical battens offers a good sail shape. It would be worth talking to them for a start to get some idea of their design paramaters re stability issues, the installation work involved and compare prices for DIY ( if it is possible) with a professional job. The Sadler did not require a new mast.

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

Close pal fitted an aftermarket in mast system to his Moody 31. Not difficult to do or he wouldnt have done it. Has had a number of problems with it, the boats performance even with vertical battens is poor, and reefing sometimes jams. He seems happy with it _ I wouldnt be. I can see no way in which it is better than slab reefing with lines lead aft.

 

[srm]

. . . . and the safety aspects if (some say when) they jam, leaving a large sail area out in strong winds.

I have moored next to two boats with jammed in mast reefing systems this summer.

A BIG Halberg Rassy - new to the elderly owners. It had hydraulic drives to mast and foresail reefing. They could not get their sail out of the mast so were using a nice sailing boat as a power boat.

The other was a heavy steel yacht with a retrofit mast reefing gear. This mainsail would not roll all the way in. Fortunately, the leech was level with the spreaders when wound as far in as possible. The owner then disconnected the clew and wound the rest of the sail up around the mast.

 

[BrianH]

I have moored next to two boats with jammed in mast reefing systems this summer.

I wish I could trace the thread I started last year, either on here or Scuttlebutt, in which I solicited thoughts about the Profurl in-boom system when I was researching what system to fit. But I am getting appalling response time in accessing pages on these fora, using a G3 dongle on board, which may have something to do with it, although earlier this year it was not so nor do I have the same problem with other sites.

But I digress. As someone noted, mainsail reefing is up there alongside anchors in the fervour generated by the different camps - more heat than light in many cases. And so it was in that thread with the large crowd of in-mast aficionados quoting their own jam-free experiences and the use by charter fleets, which they claimed proves their point.

But the most impressive and compelling posting, in my opinion, was made by a sailmaker in Spain who eloquently described the very many in-mast reefing sails he had to repair because of jams and some of the fraught situations that were caused by them.

I have already found this year that in-boom reefing is far from trouble-free - although whatever happens with the mechanism or furling the sail can still be lowered manually. But to the OP, my own advice would be to go for a one-line slab reefing system with lazyjack lines and bag.

 

[misterg]

I wish I could trace the thread I started last year, ...

This one?

Andy

 

[BrianH]

This one?

Andy

Exactly! Thanks Andy. I know I should have searched more thoroughly but every action on any of the YBW fora goes into waiting periods of literally minutes, just like clicking on the quote to answer here, I could have made myself a cup of coffee before the screen came up - very tedious.

Anyway, it was Clouty's post from that thread that rather impressed me at the time. In any case, it should give the OP some food for thought.

 

[Marsupial]

I v e written loads on this subject on this forum over the years and my advice for what its worth is dont even contemplate it. Stability issues aside (and these are not insignificant) the ability to change sail size quickly and easily is a myth - when it matters!

Speaking this week to some very experienced people at the boat show they pointed out a fatal error with in boom that I had not considered (I have limited experience of in boom) it goes like this:

With in-mast or slab reefing you have the ability to set a loose footed main, which means you ar able to tension the foot of the sail at any reefing point or at will in the case of in mast. In boom systems cannot have this facility and depending on how the sail arranges its self on the drum (boom) depends on the shape of the sail and the angle of the boom. The droopy boom gets droopier as the sail stretches and there is very little that can be done about it. Modern system do look nice but they all suffer from an iinability to tension the foot. The manufactures will claim that by having the boom at the right angle this malady goes away - yes right so where do I put the protractor as I am trying to put the reef in; on the sail or on the gooseneck?

In mast: I had a TAB retro system on a 30fter and a Z Spar system on a new Jeanneau, which is why I now have a single line slab my current boat - enough said I hope.

 

[BrianH]

The manufactures will claim that by having the boom at the right angle this malady goes away - yes right so where do I put the protractor as I am trying to put the reef in; on the sail or on the gooseneck?

My Profurl in-boom system just fitted has a very substantial and solid boom-vang that holds the boom at the required 88 degrees (boom top to upper mast) when furling. I certainly do not see any of the roller reefing/sail problems that I experienced with an old historical roller boom reefing on an earlier boat. In fact, that part works well - I have other problems that are probably nothing to do with the generic principle.