"In 2-3 years time, we won't fit another Diesel engine"

[Bouba]

Got to agree with this - Small, ugly EV's and milkfloats have been around for a hundred years and nobody wanted them - Musk realised that all automotive innovation starts at the top end of the market and works its way down - make it desirable, make
wealthy people want to pay lots for that desire, then when everybody wants one you can to scale it up.
I'm sure the same will be true of electric drivetrains for boats - electric canal boats have been around for decades to no avail, but there are now some pretty sexy electric motorboat designs coming to the top end of the market, and the likes of Spirit are leading the way for proper boats . It won't be too long before everyone wants this and a few more years before people start coughing in a meaningful way when you chug past in the marina.

Your last point is very true...before clean diesel engines went in boats no one would look twice at a smokey boat...now when you see a boat emit a cloud of black smoke everyone gives it the hard stare and the owners always look sheepish. Attitudes change and they change quickly

 

[dunedin]

What Spirit are doing is exactly that, taking established technology and adapting it to the marine market. And in the process learning a lot about what works, and what needs improvement. Those lessons can then feed into the wider marine industry.

Spirit have made a lot of publicity in the UK from showing their two boats at SIBS - but nothing particularly innovative or new there. I think their first couple of electric drives were Torqedo (need to check to be sure) but the ones at the show have switched to Oceanvolt - 15kW (circa 20hp) on the 44 footer.
Oceanvolt do decent saildrives like these, mostly at the lower voltage 48v end. Well known from their use (gift?) by Sailing Uma, but also been fitted on sailing yachts from Arcona, Salona, X-Yachts, amongst others. All of these builders have installed twin electric saildrives on 45+ foot sailing yachts, which have other advantages (which the more basic specced Sprit 44CR doesn’t have, I believe). Think most were also Serial Hybrids with 48v DC diesel generator/ range extender for long range very efficiently.
Lots of catamarans are also now available with twin electric drives - some serial hybrid, some parallel hybrid. But all again at the more premium price point where an extra £50-100k is only a marginal cost factor. Also very interesting Hardy 42 motor yacht with both serial and parallel hybrid capability at SIBS last year.
Spirit are lovely boats, but not and more advanced on electric propulsion front than many other semi-premium priced boat builders.

 

[wombat88]

Cor...I didn't know such a thing existed:

EP-50 Electric Outboard - Elco Motor Yachts

 

[Bouba]

Spirit have made a lot of publicity in the UK from showing their two boats at SIBS - but nothing particularly innovative or new there. I think their first couple of electric drives were Torqedo (need to check to be sure) but the ones at the show have switched to Oceanvolt - 15kW (circa 20hp) on the 44 footer.
Oceanvolt do decent saildrives like these, mostly at the lower voltage 48v end. Well known from their use (gift?) by Sailing Uma, but also been fitted on sailing yachts from Arcona, Salona, X-Yachts, amongst others. All of these builders have installed twin electric saildrives on 45+ foot sailing yachts, which have other advantages (which the more basic specced Sprit 44CR doesn’t have, I believe). Think most were also Serial Hybrids with 48v DC diesel generator/ range extender for long range very efficiently.
Lots of catamarans are also now available with twin electric drives - some serial hybrid, some parallel hybrid. But all again at the more premium price point where an extra £50-100k is only a marginal cost factor. Also very interesting Hardy 42 motor yacht with both serial and parallel hybrid capability at SIBS last year.
Spirit are lovely boats, but not and more advanced on electric propulsion front than many other semi-premium priced boat builders.

There is some good news from your analysis...that the change to electric is not confined to high end boats. Jeanneau have launched a fully electric outboard motorboat....the trend continues

 

[flaming]

Spirit have made a lot of publicity in the UK from showing their two boats at SIBS - but nothing particularly innovative or new there. I think their first couple of electric drives were Torqedo (need to check to be sure) but the ones at the show have switched to Oceanvolt - 15kW (circa 20hp) on the 44 footer.
Oceanvolt do decent saildrives like these, mostly at the lower voltage 48v end. Well known from their use (gift?) by Sailing Uma, but also been fitted on sailing yachts from Arcona, Salona, X-Yachts, amongst others. All of these builders have installed twin electric saildrives on 45+ foot sailing yachts, which have other advantages (which the more basic specced Sprit 44CR doesn’t have, I believe). Think most were also Serial Hybrids with 48v DC diesel generator/ range extender for long range very efficiently.
Lots of catamarans are also now available with twin electric drives - some serial hybrid, some parallel hybrid. But all again at the more premium price point where an extra £50-100k is only a marginal cost factor. Also very interesting Hardy 42 motor yacht with both serial and parallel hybrid capability at SIBS last year.
Spirit are lovely boats, but not and more advanced on electric propulsion front than many other semi-premium priced boat builders.

Yes, there are lots of others that are also doing this. And all the learnings will undoubtedly feed into general industry knowledge of what works. My interest was mostly piqued by the comment that they don't expect to sell any Diesel powered boats in 2-3 years. So it's less about being the most technologically advanced, but being able to get to a point where all of their customers will be comfortable with their offering. And that's (to me at least) the surprising bit.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Its very impressive and illustrates the appeal of the system.

My comment about Fischer Panda was based on the difficulty some experience in maintaining and repairing them. Which is not something a Spirit owner will worry about. I also like the regeneration system while sailing - a great way to generate electricity on a sailing boat once you have an electric drive.

I am uneasy that some of these developments rely on electronics and integration in a similar way to modern cars making DIY, retrofit and general meddling difficult. The problem with relying on big companies and well heeled pioneer consumers is that the solutions can become expensive and get a simplicity bypass.

You could (and some boats do) have a simple system with a basic diesel generating engine, supplementary energy capture systems and lead acid storage with a simple electric drive without excessive technology. I think internal combustion engines and their emissions even in marine settings will come under increasing pressure even if they are a relatively small part of the problem.

Spirit are thinking the way I would be thinking if I was a boat manufacturer. The speed of the change and effect on secondhand and older boats is harder to forsee - imagine a "green" marina or marine area where only certain certified emissions or CO2 footprints were permitted. Antarctica, Great Lakes, European waterways?

I have to admit I was surprised to see a Fischer-Panda in there. I found it quite impressive too but then at that price it should be. I would be interested to see if there's much difference in terms of pollution when running under the generator to power the motors compared to a straight diesel to prop..

 

[dunedin]

I have to admit I was surprised to see a Fischer-Panda in there. I found it quite impressive too but then at that price it should be. I would be interested to see if there's much difference in terms of pollution when running under the generator to power the motors compared to a straight diesel to prop..

As I understand it, a serial hybrid with generator can be much more economical / efficient than a traditional diesel because:
1) The diesel needs to be sized for peak power (motoring at 8 knots or plugging into a gale) but runs mostly at very light throttle;
2) Diesel engines are inefficient running at low load
3) Electric drives are by contrast much more efficient running at light load
4) The range extender DC generator is sized to be closer to light load power demand - and the generator therefore runs efficiently at its full load when running
5) Peak power when needed in shorter bursts comes from the battery

 

[Supertramp]

And the most savings come from when the engine can shut down and let the batteries run it until a certain capacity level is reached. My car does this and still only manages 45-50mpg when driving 300+ miles. Which is about what my old diesel did!

That said, the steady load running of a boat might favour the efficient small diesel and especially for short runs. But we're still back with several engines and a lot of electronic jiggery to get it working optimally. All for a marginal reduction in CO2 emissions.

An answer will come but I'm not seeing it yet.

 

[RupertW]

And the most savings come from when the engine can shut down and let the batteries run it until a certain capacity level is reached. My car does this and still only manages 45-50mpg when driving 300+ miles. Which is about what my old diesel did!

That said, the steady load running of a boat might favour the efficient small diesel and especially for short runs. But we're still back with several engines and a lot of electronic jiggery to get it working optimally. All for a marginal reduction in CO2 emissions.

An answer will come but I'm not seeing it yet.

I think they come from the vast majority of boats who spend each night in a marina apart from maybe one or two overnight sails or anchorages a season. A full time liveaboard who perpetually anchors would be ok mostly too as they will just wait a few days for the right wind window or engine batteries finally charged enough from solar. So that just leaves the time poor cruisers who rush about often under engine from one anchorage to another even when there is no wind - like me.