Importing power boat from USA

Bajansailor

Well-known member
Joined
27 Dec 2004
Messages
6,492
Location
Marine Surveyor in Barbados
Visit site
I don't know if you have looked at what is available in Europe but Beneteau produce a range of similar boats and without knowing a great deal about them they are plentiful and work in the Atlantic waters of France , Portugal and Spain so one would assume them to be seaworthy.
Here's one to give you an idea of what is available and there must be other manufacturers.

Not only Beneteau, but also Jeanneau as well - between them they have quite a wide range of boats around 21'.

Here is a link to the Arima site - re your 21' boat, is she a hard top?
Arima Boats – Building Legendary Boats For Over 35 Years

Here is a 2005 model 21 HT for sale
2005 Arima 21 Sea Ranger HT, Coos Bay Oregon - boats.com

Re Beneteaus, the 7 metre Antares seems to be similar to an Arima -
Antares 7 | BENETEAU

And the small Jeanneau Merry Fishers are also similar -
Merry Fisher 695 serie2 | Jeanneau Boats
 

Seafox55

New member
Joined
27 May 2023
Messages
13
Visit site
Not only Beneteau, but also Jeanneau as well - between them they have quite a wide range of boats around 21'.

Here is a link to the Arima site - re your 21' boat, is she a hard top?
Arima Boats – Building Legendary Boats For Over 35 Years

Here is a 2005 model 21 HT for sale
2005 Arima 21 Sea Ranger HT, Coos Bay Oregon - boats.com

Re Beneteaus, the 7 metre Antares seems to be similar to an Arima -
Antares 7 | BENETEAU

And the small Jeanneau Merry Fishers are also similar -
Merry Fisher 695 serie2 | Jeanneau Boats
Yes, they are similar boats in style and length, but they start at around 40000EU without an engine and I don't think they're double foam filled hulls, whereas my Arima is paid for, so importing it for $4000 and getting it surveyed is still worth it. I love my Arima. It's a very safe, roomy, comfortable and stable boat.
 

Seafox55

New member
Joined
27 May 2023
Messages
13
Visit site
Yes, they are similar boats in style and length, but they start at around 40000EU without an engine and I don't think they're double foam filled hulls, whereas my Arima is paid for, so importing it for $4000 and getting it surveyed is still worth it. I love my Arima. It's a very safe, roomy, comfortable and stable boat.
Yes, they are similar boats in style and length, but they start at around 40000EU without an engine and I don't think they're double foam filled hulls, whereas my Arima is paid for, so importing it for $4000 and getting it surveyed is still worth it. I love my Arima. It's a very safe, roomy, comfortable and stable boat.
Mine is a soft top, foldable bimini, with a radar and rod holder arch. Thinking of adding a skip tower top to it.
 

Fr J Hackett

Well-known member
Joined
26 Dec 2001
Messages
66,595
Location
Saou
Visit site
Yes, they are similar boats in style and length, but they start at around 40000EU without an engine and I don't think they're double foam filled hulls, whereas my Arima is paid for, so importing it for $4000 and getting it surveyed is still worth it. I love my Arima. It's a very safe, roomy, comfortable and stable boat.
That $4000 will only be the start of the costs, you will require a new trailer easily €2000, certification minimum assuming nothing untoward €1000 but quite possibly a new engine €10,000?
I can understand the attachment to your existing boat but unless you are prepared to pay a lot simply for the pleasure of continued ownership and there is nothing wrong with that if you can afford it, there will be considerable cost to importing your boat.
 

westernman

Well-known member
Joined
23 Sep 2008
Messages
13,751
Location
Costa Brava
www.devalk.nl
Mine is a soft top, foldable bimini, with a radar and rod holder arch. Thinking of adding a skip tower top to it.
Just a thought which might possibly make a difference.

Are you moving house (and all its contents) from the USA (where you are currently resident) to Spain (where you will be resident)?

In that case there might be some kind of relief for the import. There is for your household contents (you won't have to pay VAT and import duties on all of that), and normally something similar exists for the import of cars and possibly boats. Provided it is all imported at "the same time". (There is almost certainly a precise definition of "at the same time" somewhere).

However, that probably does not solve the problem of getting a RCD II certificate which I think is still going to be needed before you can legally use the boat.
 

dunedin

Well-known member
Joined
3 Feb 2004
Messages
13,945
Location
Boat (over winters in) the Clyde
Visit site
Notwithstanding the above advice, if set on this course of action importing it without the engine and fitting an EU and thus RCD compliant replacement would probably be the line of least resistance; even the worst hull design will likely pass the requirement for RCD D rating as even rowing boats can do that. The cost of having it evaluated and a manual written would still be substantial though.
I think this EU / RCD thing could be a real can of worms. Yes it might be possible to get the hull coded as RCD D for a small number of people - but still would need the costs of certification and probably creating a boat manual, which is not cheap.
But also, whilst the UK largely ignores these ratings, I believe some other EU countries restrict boats to be used only within their plated rating (which does have some logic). Hence if only certified to Cat D and, say, 4 people - it would not be permitted to be used above F4 or wave heights of 50cm, nor with more than 4 people on board even in a harbour or canal. This would likely invalidate insurance and could be fined (in the countries which apply these categories rigorously).
It seems like would not be realistic / cost effective for a boat like this (perhaps different if a one off classic boat, being imported by a rich Hollywood type).
 
Last edited:

AntarcticPilot

Well-known member
Joined
4 May 2007
Messages
10,534
Location
Cambridge, UK
www.cooperandyau.co.uk
A comparatively minor issue is that European electrical standards differ greatly from US ones. Not a problem for a simple 12v only system, but probably requiring rewiring of any mains voltage systems.

The bottom line is that this is an issue that frequently comes up here. People see a boat they like or at a price they like, and want to import it to Europe. Once they consider all the costs involved, they realize that it isn't such a good deal, UNLESS the boat is one which is sold into the European market, and even then, only maybe. The point above about restrictions on use according to RCD category are a point to bear in mind - yes, it's comparatively easy to get RCD category D, but in many European countries that restricts you to sheltered water in millpond conditions.

You can anticipate costs of the same order as the value of the boat, and potentially find that obtaining an RCD classification allowing the kind of use you expect is impossible. RCD classification requires things like stability data; if these are not available in a suitable form from the builder, then you could face a dead end.
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
42,330
Visit site
Yes, they are similar boats in style and length, but they start at around 40000EU without an engine and I don't think they're double foam filled hulls, whereas my Arima is paid for, so importing it for $4000 and getting it surveyed is still worth it. I love my Arima. It's a very safe, roomy, comfortable and stable boat.
Not sure where you get the $4k from. Might just cover shipping costs for the boat. The "survey" is more than that but an assessment of the design, build and equipment against the standards and has to be carried out by an authorised body. Minimum of £1k IF all the design data is available. A CE approval mark is given in 4 categories A,B,C and D and I expect your boat would be aiming at C which is for inshore waters. In Spain they use this as a base for your licence as to where and how you can use the boat and for registration as a Spanish boat. If you can get over that hurdle there is 21% VAT on the value of the boat and all costs (including certification) for getting the boat to that point. Then you will have to buy a trailer as I do not think your US trailer can be modified to meet EU standards.

However there may be other ways you can get the boat into Spain. As suggested in post#28 the EU has a relief from VAT for those who are taking up residence as the boat is classified as personal chattels and can be imported without paying VAT. When the UK was in the EU this was commonly used and also there was no requirement to meet standards on goods imported in this way for private use. I don't think this exemption would apply in Spain because of the use of certification for registration and licencing purposes - that is local law not EU. Another way is to temporarily enter under the EU scheme which allows non EU boats to be used in the EU for 18 months if you are non resident. You are then not required to comply with any local requirements nor pay VAT. However when you become resident you will have to formally import it and we are back to the beginning!

The challenge in Spain is dealing with officials as it is well known that interpretation and enforcement of "rules" varies around the country and even from office to office. None of the advice and suggestions given so far is wrong - it reflects the law that we have lived with for years. However the only sensible course of action is to visit the customs office where you intend to import the boat and ask for confirmation of what you need to do. You may well find it worth seeking local legal advice as well. The last thing you want is to get your boat there and find you can't legally use it.
 

Fr J Hackett

Well-known member
Joined
26 Dec 2001
Messages
66,595
Location
Saou
Visit site
I fear that we have done all we can to inform the OP but it has to an extent fallen on deaf ears. He is understandably attached to his boat partly it seems because he believes it to be better built than any UK equivalent whether that is true or not is another question . However he should by now have a reasonable idea of the likely costs which he can confirm by asking the relevant authorities which in the case of Spain I think is the Guarda Civil.
 

Wansworth

Well-known member
Joined
8 May 2003
Messages
33,004
Location
SPAIN,Galicia
Visit site
I fear that we have done all we can to inform the OP but it has to an extent fallen on deaf ears. He is understandably attached to his boat partly it seems because he believes it to be better built than any UK equivalent whether that is true or not is another question . However he should by now have a reasonable idea of the likely costs which he can confirm by asking the relevant authorities which in the case of Spain I think is the Guarda Civil.
And a maritime gestoria
 

westernman

Well-known member
Joined
23 Sep 2008
Messages
13,751
Location
Costa Brava
www.devalk.nl
Not sure where you get the $4k from. Might just cover shipping costs for the boat. The "survey" is more than that but an assessment of the design, build and equipment against the standards and has to be carried out by an authorised body. Minimum of £1k IF all the design data is available. A CE approval mark is given in 4 categories A,B,C and D and I expect your boat would be aiming at C which is for inshore waters. In Spain they use this as a base for your licence as to where and how you can use the boat and for registration as a Spanish boat. If you can get over that hurdle there is 21% VAT on the value of the boat and all costs (including certification) for getting the boat to that point. Then you will have to buy a trailer as I do not think your US trailer can be modified to meet EU standards.

However there may be other ways you can get the boat into Spain. As suggested in post#28 the EU has a relief from VAT for those who are taking up residence as the boat is classified as personal chattels and can be imported without paying VAT. When the UK was in the EU this was commonly used and also there was no requirement to meet standards on goods imported in this way for private use. I don't think this exemption would apply in Spain because of the use of certification for registration and licencing purposes - that is local law not EU. Another way is to temporarily enter under the EU scheme which allows non EU boats to be used in the EU for 18 months if you are non resident. You are then not required to comply with any local requirements nor pay VAT. However when you become resident you will have to formally import it and we are back to the beginning!

The challenge in Spain is dealing with officials as it is well known that interpretation and enforcement of "rules" varies around the country and even from office to office. None of the advice and suggestions given so far is wrong - it reflects the law that we have lived with for years. However the only sensible course of action is to visit the customs office where you intend to import the boat and ask for confirmation of what you need to do. You may well find it worth seeking local legal advice as well. The last thing you want is to get your boat there and find you can't legally use it.
Talking about dealing with officials in Spain. :(

I set up a wholly owned subsidiary of my French company in Barcelona.
I had to go to Barcelona to get various notary documents signed as well as a certificate from the bank for the deposit of the capital.

This could not be done remotely (most places you can do this remotely, such as Hong Kong, Delaware USA, Greece, etc).

Then for some reason, they decided they wanted to see my entrance stamp into Spain in my passport. The fact that a Notary agent had signed to say I was present on such a such a date in front of him and that he checked my passport etc etc was not good enough. I have not been back to the UK since brexit. So I have no Spanish or other Schengen entry stamp in my passport. Going from home in France to Barcelona you just drive across the border at 110kmh. There is nowhere to get a stamp.

This was a major problem, which was eventually solved when I got my French citizenship and was able to send them a copy of my French passport.
 

Seafox55

New member
Joined
27 May 2023
Messages
13
Visit site
That $4000 will only be the start of the costs, you will require a new trailer easily €2000, certification minimum assuming nothing untoward €1000 but quite possibly a new engine €10,000?
I can understand the attachment to your existing boat but unless you are prepared to pay a lot simply for the pleasure of continued ownership and there is nothing wrong with that if you can afford it, there will be considerable cost to importing your boat.
I agree with you.
 

Seafox55

New member
Joined
27 May 2023
Messages
13
Visit site
Hello everyone. I've read all the comments and appreciate all the input and advice. After many months of research and consulting with knowledgeable people and authorities, I concede and have decided not to ship my Arima 21 Sea Ranger to Spain. The headaches and costs involved are just not worth it. On the bright side, I have found a couple of EU boat manufacturers who build boats much to my liking. They are very similar to Arimas, if not nicer and more refined. The manufacturers I'm referring to are Selva (Italian) and Karnic (Cyprus). The Karnic models (also sold under the Selva brand) that I'm currently looking at, are the Karnic SL602 with a 115 or 150hp Yamaha, or a used 2002 Karnic 2250 Bluewater with a Mercury F200 Verado, or a new Karnic SL600 Cabin with a Selva 115hp. I learned, that all Selva 4 stroke 115, 150 and 175 hp outboards are actually rebranded Yamahas (all parts are made by Yamaha). Then there was also the problem of importing and American built trailer: yet another headache. I found several EU built suitable galvanized trailer manufacturers here in Spain to suit my needs. The costs varied between EU3000 to EU4000 for a new tandem axel trailer. Reasonable, but given some time to look around, I could probably find a good used one later for less cost. Then there is the possibility of waiting and buying a package deal (at a reduced cost for everything- boat show specials)) at one of the boat shows. Here in Spain, there are also laws regarding tow vehicles. I learned that trailers over a certain size, like the above mentioned boat trailers, require special licenses - both the plates and the actual driver's license, and the tow vehicle has to matched to the trailer, meaning you cannot tow it with another vehicle without changing the certification.

The other thing I've learned, that here in Spain, maybe in the entire EU, boats come with an A, B or C classification, which determines where or how far offshore the boat may be operated. Then comes the actual boating license: again several different classes of licenses.

Navigation License - Your first boat card​

The navigation license is the easiest option to start browsing. It is the permit formerly known as a "titulin" and will allow you to take boats of up to 6 meters in length, and stay up to two miles away from the coast. The main advantage of the navigation license is that in just 6 hours of training in a nautical school you will become a boat patron, that is, you do not have to pass any theoretical or practical exam, just attend the theoretical training- practice.

With this license you can take boats up to 6 meters in length, with the power allowed by the boat and you can move away from the coast up to a maximum distance of 2 miles.

With this navigation license you can navigate between sunrise and sunset. If you want to navigate at night you will need at least the Basic Navigation Pattern (GNP) title.

Basic Navigation Pattern - Your first nautical degree​

The title of Basic Navigation Pattern, known by its acronym: "PNB", is the nautical recreational qualification that will allow you to sail in boats of up to 8 meters in length, to navigate up to 5 miles from the coast. Unlike the Navigation License, it allows night sailing, in addition to the day.

In order to obtain this degree, it is necessary to pass a test type exam that the competent public administrations provide in each autonomous community. In addition, it is mandatory to perform basic safety and navigation practices that consist of two four-hour departures. It is also mandatory to carry out a theoretical-practical demonstration of radiocommunications.

Recreation pattern - The most demanded nautical qualification​

The well-known "PER" or Patron of Recreational Boats, is the most popular nautical qualification since it is the option that most attributions offers and does not require obtaining any previous nautical license or qualification, you can opt to obtain the PER directly. The title of Patron of Recreational Boats serves to carry boats of up to 15 meters in length and to navigate the maximum distance off the coast of 12 miles, or to make navigations between the Balearic or Canary Islands.

In order to obtain this qualification, it is necessary to pass a mutliple choice type test convened by the competent public administrations in each autonomous community and carry out basic safety and navigation practices, aboard a school ship, which consist of at least 16 hours. It is also mandatory to obtain the certificate of having completed the practical theoretical course of short range radio operator, which lasts 12 hours.

It is possible to expand the powers of the PER to carry boats of up to 24 meters in length and be able to make crossings between the peninsula and the Balearic Islands. For this, additional practices must be carried out in an approved nautical school consisting of a continuous 24-hour navigation journey.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Joys of Boating in Spain!! But then again, safety comes first.

On a final note, I'll be doing the Level one- Navigation License (2 hours theoretical, plus 4 hours practical on the water) in February through the RYA Recognized Training Center in Denia, and plan to move up to the level 3- Recreation pattern, once I've purchased my Spanish flagged boat.

Thanks again everyone: HAPPY NEW YEAR, HAPPY BOATING AND CALM SEAS FOR EVERYONE.
 
Last edited:

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
42,330
Visit site
Pleased to see you are making progress.

You are right about Spanish regulations with regard to licencing and use of boats. The classifications are indeed EU (and UK) wide for boats built since 1998. However they are consumer related regulations and were never intended as a basis for licencing, but certain states particularly the "latin" ones - Spain, Portugal, Italy and to an extent France, Croatia, Slovenia and Greece have a history of controlling and regulating the activities of their citizens through elaborate systems of licencing pleasure boating and the first 3 in particular use the RCD (the EU regulations on boat design standards) as a basis for determining where a boat can be used and by whom.

This can be avoided if the boat is registered outside the state which is why you will see many UK registered boats (there are no regulations in the UK) and to a lesser extent other EU state registrations. Not always practical for most local citizens or residents who have to live with the local rules.
 

Seafox55

New member
Joined
27 May 2023
Messages
13
Visit site
Hello Tranona. Yes, it's been suggested by boat owner friend of mine to register the boat under a foreign flag because of less stringent regulations, but I've also been advised against registering it under a Polish flag. Apparently Poland is one of the least regulated countries and the Spanish Guardia Civil tend to go after them in particular. Do you know what the situation is now with a UK registered boat in Spain, after Brexit?
 
Top