Importing a boat from EU

[tsekul]

Hi There,

so am I right in assuming that any second hand boat for sale in the EU I have to now add 20% to the list price to ?
If I want to bring it back to the UK.

I thought I read somewhere boats older than 15 years are vat exempt ?

thanks in advance
T

 

[jwilson]

Yes: you will normally have to pay VAT. No VAT exemption for 15 year old boats. Until 2023 the CE mark is acceptable. After then you may have to get it UKCA marked (our new version of the RCD CE-marking), this is not cheap either.

Very very few boats now get bought in the EU and brought into the UK. Not many now go the reverse way either.

 

[Blueboatman]

British registered, ex international tax
Might be an acronym in there somewhere

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The "B" word, which might get me moderated if I mention it, has taken the UK out of the EU customs union so as jwilson pointed out, there will be VAT and import costs to bring an EU boat to the UK. No point in bregret, it's done and there is now nothing anyone can do about it other than live with the consequences.

But .... many EU boats are ex-charter and sold without EU VAT paid. If you immediately export them from the EU then you are not paying EU VAT. I have done this and as a UK resident you can buy VAT free in the EU and export the boat to the UK.

When the boat arrives in the UK, VAT and import duties if there are any will be payable. So you're not paying VAT twice.

 

[tsekul]

Oh well should keep the Uk market a bit more lively ! A lot less choice though ?
In the longer term that will mean 2nd hand boats in the UK will hold their value better as the only way to avoid paying vat twice is to buy new or from a Uk Seller ?
Thanks

 

[RadiumRob]

You're right about restricted availability and choice of second-hand boats. Britain will become to yachts what Cuba is to cars.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Yes: you will normally have to pay VAT. No VAT exemption for 15 year old boats. Until 2023 the CE mark is acceptable. After then you may have to get it UKCA marked (our new version of the RCD CE-marking), this is not cheap either.

Very very few boats now get bought in the EU and brought into the UK. Not many now go the reverse way either.

Why in the name of all that's holy are they going to institute an alternative British standard?? The CE one has been perfectly good enough up to now. They could at least promise to make it exactly the same as CE standard and mutually rubber stamp equivalency with the EU!

 

[Tranona]

Why in the name of all that's holy are they going to institute an alternative British standard?? The CE one has been perfectly good enough up to now. They could at least promise to make it exactly the same as CE standard and mutually rubber stamp equivalency with the EU!

The two are currently the same - but as you know the UK government's long term aim is to be able to diverge from EU standards if it suits, so in preparation for Brexit they changed the law to have a distinctive UK standard. Given that there is very little boatbuilding in the UK the additional costs of dual certification for boats exported to the EU will be a minor irritation it will add to the cost of boats imported from the EU. i was told the other day by the importer of large MOBOs that UK certification adds around £1k to the cost of the boat.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

The two are currently the same - but as you know the UK government's long term aim is to be able to diverge from EU standards if it suits, so in preparation for Brexit they changed the law to have a distinctive UK standard. Given that there is very little boatbuilding in the UK the additional costs of dual certification for boats exported to the EU will be a minor irritation it will add to the cost of boats imported from the EU. i was told the other day by the importer of large MOBOs that UK certification adds around £1k to the cost of the boat.

"Diverge" = lower standards, in my book!

 

[roblpm]

Why in the name of all that's holy are they going to institute an alternative British standard?? The CE one has been perfectly good enough up to now. They could at least promise to make it exactly the same as CE standard and mutually rubber stamp equivalency with the EU!

Unbelievable

 

[roblpm]

You're right about restricted availability and choice of second-hand boats. Britain will become to yachts what Cuba is to cars.

Ugh. This is depressing. We live on a small island with a small island mentality. Can someone suggest how I tell my kids I am abandoning them?

 

[Lucy52]

You could look at boats in the EU advertised as non-VAT paid. Presumably owned by a company. I have seen such in Guernsey and elsewhere and previously worried about the VAT. I need not have, as Tranora mentioned above, if you export it from the EU than you would only pay the VAT once on the importation, and at the second hand price. A private EU buyer would be in the same position.

 

[ashtead]

Presumably should you really want to buy a Vat paid boat in the Med you could just buy it and keep it in Ireland and work out how to gain Irish citizenship . I gather if your parents are born anywhere in Ireland you can apply but has anyone first hand experience ?

 

[RadiumRob]

You could look at boats in the EU advertised as non-VAT paid. Presumably owned by a company. I have seen such in Guernsey and elsewhere and previously worried about the VAT. I need not have, as Tranora mentioned above, if you export it from the EU than you would only pay the VAT once on the importation, and at the second hand price. A private EU buyer would be in the same position.

Why non-VAT paid? Presumably you'd do this for any boat you liked that was in short supply in the UK and at a reasonable price compared to those being charged for an equivalent UK, tax-paid, boat. Does it matter, other than as a point of principle, if somebody else previously paid tax on purchasing the boat (it is the event, not the boat, that is taxed)?

As prices for the scarce supply of UK boats increase, taking the tax hit on importing a boat that might command a decent re-sale price at some point in the future might not be such a bad idea, albeit a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The two are currently the same - but as you know the UK government's long term aim is to be able to diverge from EU standards if it suits, so in preparation for Brexit they changed the law to have a distinctive UK standard. Given that there is very little boatbuilding in the UK the additional costs of dual certification for boats exported to the EU will be a minor irritation it will add to the cost of boats imported from the EU. i was told the other day by the importer of large MOBOs that UK certification adds around £1k to the cost of the boat.

While it will not make a huge difference to the top end of the market, it may well have a detrimental effect on the bottom end, with it costing Performance Sailcraft (Laser manufacturers), Topper Sailboats, and RS more to certify to multiple standards.

In the car industry we have been working hard for decades to introduce global standards, which reduce certification costs, design costs, manufacturing costs, and ultimately give the customer more product choice because it makes it more cost effective to offer all models in all markets.

Why the UK thinks going in the other direction and diverging from existing standards is an advantage is beyond me, unless they want to lower them - accepting lower quality goods would make things cheaper because we can import stuff that the EU doesn't want from countries that can't meet EU standards - giving UK customers more choice.

 

[ashtead]

My impression with standards is all will be fine generally until the EU decide to change and the UK decides not to follow the dictate of the directives- generally people have worked around so far but if the UK moves closer to other countries eg the US on say data this will lead to further employment opportunities for many consultants.

 

[st599]

so am I right in assuming that any second hand boat for sale in the EU I have to now add 20% to the list price to ?
If I want to bring it back to the UK.

20% on what HMRC believe the value is in the UK at the time of import, this is usually the list price but depends on which revenue officer you meet and may be more.

 

[Tranona]

"Diverge" = lower standards, in my book!

Why would you think that? So far in animal welfare and farming the opposite is the case. What makes you think that the EU is the arbiter of high standards? The main advantage of the Single Market was some level of consistency and experience shows this was not always the case when individual states are responsible for implementation.

The RCD has been castigated by just about everybody on these forums over the years - even though most of it was actually developed and written in the UK - but now people seem to be afraid of deviating from the EU!

As to the impact of two seemingly different standards (which currently is not actually the case) builders will build and certify boats to suit the markets they sell in. The current situation where boats need individual certification before sale in the UK will change once builders change their systems to effectively self certify as they do currently for CE marking.

Individual imports will need certification, but for CE marked boats this is a paperwork exercise when it comes in next year and if volume is large, competition will keep prices down. As has been pointed out already if thinking of buying a boat in the EU for use in the UK (or the other way round) the only thing that matters (apart from the boat itself!) is the cost of getting it to where you want it including all the transport, taxes, certification (not forgetting currency difference) and then deciding if this represents value to you.

Buying a non VAT paid boat in the EU is in most cases a non starter for use in the UK. Most are in the Med and are ex charter boats. by the time you have paid for them in £sterling, brought them up to spec for UK use and transported to the UK, paid VAT and certification the cost will exceed an equivalent boat in the UK - and based on experience from when I did it will not achieve a sales price anywhere near a private UK boat.

There will of course be individual situations or individual boats where the sums do add up - lower value pre 1997 EEA built boats for example that do not need certification. In more general terms, Markets have a habit of equalising and if prices of used boats in the UK rise because of the shortage of boats and prices in the EU don't then importing may become attractive.

For example a Bavaria 33 like mine came on the market last week at £89950 and has sold already. There are 2 similar boats that have been on the market for some time in Germany with asking prices of around £70 VAT paid. £5k cheaper even after paying UK VAT. I am sure there are many more examples to illustrate the point. 5 years ago EU buyers were doing exactly the same type of sums which led to significant numbers of later model boats being sold from UK to Europe. No reason why it should not go the other way!

 

[bpbpbp]

You could look at boats in the EU advertised as non-VAT paid. Presumably owned by a company. I have seen such in Guernsey and elsewhere and previously worried about the VAT. I need not have, as Tranora mentioned above, if you export it from the EU than you would only pay the VAT once on the importation, and at the second hand price. A private EU buyer would be in the same position.

Is there an age cut-off where no VAT is due, eg boats older than 40 years?

 

[bpbpbp]

Presumably should you really want to buy a Vat paid boat in the Med you could just buy it and keep it in Ireland and work out how to gain Irish citizenship . I gather if your parents are born anywhere in Ireland you can apply but has anyone first hand experience ?

UK citizens can simply move to Ireland, live and work, and after 5 years apply for citizenship. I've been told this by Irish citizens when looking at old cottages to renovate.