snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Too smart to let themselves be held up by a slow cruiser that takes a minute to tack. But the ones who yell 'I'm racing' are almost always the back markers.
"I'm racing!" - how to reply
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
Too smart to let themselves be held up by a slow cruiser that takes a minute to tack. But the ones who yell 'I'm racing' are almost always the back markers.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Sometimes it's best to say nothing. Anchored in Spanish waters one day there was an Optimist race that passed close to us. The wind was very light and one young lad sneaked round the back of me, whipped out his dagger board and started paddling. After a while he wondered why he wasn't making any progress then he looked up and saw me holding his masthead, wagging a finger and shaking my head.
chrisbitz
Well-Known Member
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Or maybe it's a bit difficult dodging little boats in something really big. If it's a big race fleet sometimes it's impossible to miss all of them.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
Of course, sometimes one has to remember that there may be a special local rule of which one might be unaware or that "Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the ... neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case"
For example, the circumstances in which one might call "Starboard" from one's awb when confronted with the scene below are, how shall I put it, extremely limited:
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snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of a conversation overheard on the radio
VLCC captain: 'There's a yacht crossing my path'
Milford Haven VTS: 'Gross tonnage rule applies'.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Er - if the racers are good and as you say - looking ahead - then they won't be getting anywhere near you .. or your wind shadow ...
If they're not good then they won't look so far ahead and then get all upset and blame you for their position at the back of the fleet ...
fireball
Well-Known Member
SigmaJon
Member
I have a special technique (that I also use on the roads if I am stuck in the wrong lane). I just shout "wait a minute" and then get back to a loud argument with the wife whilst waving a very large chart. If you can get in some comments such as "No dear pull the white rope with the pretty pink bits" or "am I supposed to pull or push this tiller thingy". Always works everybody will rethink their attitudes and give you a wide berth.
BelleSerene
Well-Known Member
I do find it a shame and a bit surprising that the majority of comments on this thread, other than a few amusing one-liners, are coming from intolerance towards the racer. Surely if we're out cruising and someone's competing to get in a straight line as fast as possible it doesn't hurt to adjust course a bit?
Yes, there are some bloody-minded racers (usually those at the back of the fleet, like the skippers who shout) who'll cry 'we're racing' to cover for their own incompetence in not having foreseen the clear water to race in - but come on guys, if we're cruising, what's the issue?
I found it strangely at odds with the general spirit of the forum.
Yes, there are some bloody-minded racers (usually those at the back of the fleet, like the skippers who shout) who'll cry 'we're racing' to cover for their own incompetence in not having foreseen the clear water to race in - but come on guys, if we're cruising, what's the issue?
I found it strangely at odds with the general spirit of the forum.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Safety and collision avoidance.
I reckon that's the only outlook which is advisable to observe...no point having rules for clarity & collective safety if they may routinely (but not predictably) be ignored.
If as well-meaning cruisers we are inclined to oblige racers by giving up right of way, we encourage this route to advantage - we teach them to expect this 'courtesy'.
It must make good sense to avoid a racing fleet in good time, where safe and convenient, without stressful spontaneous alteration to one's otherwise predictable course...
...but, as a cruiser amongst a racing fleet, holding your course (thereby adhering to right of way) must be not just unambiguous to the racers, but also to any inquiry set up after an incident/accident. It'd be a royal pain in the parts to overlook ColRegs as a friendly courtesy, then find yourself liable in the event of a crunch.
Many racers are like kids in a schoolyard - minds set on immediate prospects of personal glory, and entirely ready to break safely rules to get it. Should we encourage that?
prv
Well-Known Member
If there's just one or two of them, that's quite true, and I do. The question was about when there's a whole swarm of them a couple of boatlengths apart. If you start jinking about in the middle of that you're just making yourself unpredictable. Far better to follow the rules that everybody understands, and let them flow round you.
Pete
doris
Well-Known Member
In another lifetime I was pottering up the Lymington River in a Sigma 41, going v slowly trying to thread my way through the Oppie fleet, who all appeared about 8 years old. We were doing all we could to give them every possible inch of space but they were everywhere. The language that came from these frightfully well spoken little angels would have embarrassed any navvy. It was extraordinary and the worst offenders were the little girls! Royal Lymington's parents would have cringed to realize what they had taught their little darlings.
Generally we never have a problem with racing fleets in the Solent. As Flaming points out, I wouldn't obstruct a fun run in my local park so why be such a curmudgeonly old f*rt and do so on the water. When we alter course we nearly always get a wave and a thank you unless they are all very occupied.
Generally we never have a problem with racing fleets in the Solent. As Flaming points out, I wouldn't obstruct a fun run in my local park so why be such a curmudgeonly old f*rt and do so on the water. When we alter course we nearly always get a wave and a thank you unless they are all very occupied.
BelleSerene
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by BelleSerene
I do find it a shame...that the majority of comments on this thread...are coming from intolerance towards the racer...come on guys, if we're cruising, what's the issue?
That's a very fair answer!
I recall an eastern broad reach in the Solent many moons ago, passing a huddle of yachts heading in no particular direction, like the cars on a Paris roundabout. Suddenly, like a pile of iron filings when you bring a magnet near, they all lined up in the same direction, which just happened to be towards me.
That was when I made out a comedy boat to starboard and a pin-end buoy to port: I was approaching their start line from the course side. As I was so clearly in a stupid place and felt very inconsiderate, I ducked and weaved between them, cringing at the wind I was taking. Embarrassing.
It gave my newbie crew some idea of the excitement of a race without having to enter one, though.
I do find it a shame...that the majority of comments on this thread...are coming from intolerance towards the racer...come on guys, if we're cruising, what's the issue?
That's a very fair answer!
I recall an eastern broad reach in the Solent many moons ago, passing a huddle of yachts heading in no particular direction, like the cars on a Paris roundabout. Suddenly, like a pile of iron filings when you bring a magnet near, they all lined up in the same direction, which just happened to be towards me.
That was when I made out a comedy boat to starboard and a pin-end buoy to port: I was approaching their start line from the course side. As I was so clearly in a stupid place and felt very inconsiderate, I ducked and weaved between them, cringing at the wind I was taking. Embarrassing.
It gave my newbie crew some idea of the excitement of a race without having to enter one, though.
nickd
Well-Known Member
As an active crusier, cruiser racer, dinghy racer and safety boat helm for dinghy racers I have sympathies from all sides, but on the whole agree with the principle that colregs apply as this ensures predictability for all parties. I will try to avoid being in the vicinity of a racecourse if not racing wherever possible though as long as I can do this obviously and early.
The best incident I have witnessed was being on the ferry to Riva on Lake Garda when Riva were hosting the Mumm36 world champs. At least a mile (probably 10 minutes before 0) from the start line it became obvious that; the start line crossed the ferry's course, the ferry was not going to change course, the start was going to be shortly before the ferry crossed the start line from the racing side - wow what a mess!
There were mumm 36's everywhere lucky there was no collisions but it must have ruined some peoples race, the sad thing was the Race Officer had ample time to have worked out what was going to happen and could easily have postponed the start regardless of rules it would have just been common courtesy to the racers and the ferry.
The best incident I have witnessed was being on the ferry to Riva on Lake Garda when Riva were hosting the Mumm36 world champs. At least a mile (probably 10 minutes before 0) from the start line it became obvious that; the start line crossed the ferry's course, the ferry was not going to change course, the start was going to be shortly before the ferry crossed the start line from the racing side - wow what a mess!
There were mumm 36's everywhere lucky there was no collisions but it must have ruined some peoples race, the sad thing was the Race Officer had ample time to have worked out what was going to happen and could easily have postponed the start regardless of rules it would have just been common courtesy to the racers and the ferry.
ProMariner
Well-Known Member
Funny, I have raced and cruised for years, in big and wee boats, all over, and have never once been shouted at, aside from by fellow competitors when racing.
If you expect everyone to have perfect information about the colregs, the local geography, or situational awareness, probably everyone screws up in your eyes. But if you expect every fisherman to be watching their plotter, every motor cruiser skipper to be swilling beer, and telling jokes; every cruising yacht skipper to be making a cup of tea; every bridge officer to be watching telly; and every racing boat to be only watching their own fleet, then you will never be disappointed. More, you will be pleasantly surprised every time one of them makes an effort to make your day easier.
If you expect everyone to have perfect information about the colregs, the local geography, or situational awareness, probably everyone screws up in your eyes. But if you expect every fisherman to be watching their plotter, every motor cruiser skipper to be swilling beer, and telling jokes; every cruising yacht skipper to be making a cup of tea; every bridge officer to be watching telly; and every racing boat to be only watching their own fleet, then you will never be disappointed. More, you will be pleasantly surprised every time one of them makes an effort to make your day easier.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Are there local rules that make the ferry the stand on vessel to a whole load of sail powered vessels? Otherwise the PRO would have surely expected a professional mariner to obey the rules and keep clear...
The interesting thing about this whole "I'm racing!" thing is that I've done a lot of sailing in and around the Solent including racing, cruising, charter work and a little bit of instructing, and I have never heard anyone shout that, not once. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it doesn't happen from or to me. Does that mean I sail in a different way to those who do get shouted at when I'm not racing?
I know that all the racers I sail with appreciate it when a cruiser does give up their stand on rights, and we would certainly give a thank you wave if we've not got our hands full. I've also seen some monumentally stupid things done by cruising boats, which if they weren't done deliberately were clearly the result of a massive failure in their lookout duties. For example the cruiser that appeared in the prestart area of RORC's Easter regatta a few years back, amongst nearly 100 racers milling about waiting for their starts, on port with the crew nowhere near the wheel... I can only assume the "goto waypoint" function was engaged.
The spring and winter series are also where we occasionally find those little day fishing boats moored to the racing marks...
prv
Well-Known Member
Haydude will probably come and tell me off (probably rightly), but presumably there was the "hey, I'm Italian!" rule
Pete
PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
Starboard!!!!! ...... Stabooooooaaaaaaard!!!
Thats what I did in Harwich harbour some years ago and they promptly tacked(but I was also prepared to act to avoid a collision) and they immediately tacked(but I was bigger than him)
Another time I just moved slightly and went under his stern. Usually I try and avoid them, dinghies are the worst leaving it to the last second before acting - one actually collided with my chain whilst anchored!