I'll be back soon ...

Have a chat with John Kinge at Timik Marine, he may well have something suitable on the shelf, either already refurbed or waiting the right opportunity.

I had a Ford Sabre [Dover] rebuilt by him recently and would reccomend them wholeheartedly. Ben has my number if you would like a chat.
 
Croftie said:
According to HOME - everythingaboutboats.org thats a marinised Ford 4D E1A not a Ford 2711E

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Seeing this prompted me to drag out some memories from my youth which may either help or further confuse. The engines in the boat do look like E1A from Fordson tractors. My first decent job when I left school (1963-8) was with Ford tractors at Basildon during the switch from Dagenham to the new factory and a completely new range built in UK Belgium and US - the first "world" project for Ford. One of my tasks was to handle the paperwork for the dismantling and disposal of the tractor engine and transmission lines in Dagenham where the Dorset machining lines were being installed. From memory the 3 cylinder lines both engines and transmissions were scrapped and the 4 cylinder lines went to Ebro in Spain (formerly Ford Iberica) and they continued to make those engines for several years before they switched to a mixture of Nissan and Massey Ferguson.

So it could be that they are Spanish Ford engines that would still have been current in the mid 70s.

That boat looks potentially too good to let go, but maybe not with those engines. Seems to me a pair of Perkins 4 236s would be a suitable replacement - next generation tractor engines as base and still loads in service. Or thinking laterally, what about a pair of nearly new JCB Mermaid that Marine Enterprises have for sale.
 
Engine costs are well out.

My friend call his chein Hwa a Taiwanese takeaway as the build quality was a bit hmmmn……rusted out fuel tanks,he was forever chasing teak deck leaks and window leaks …..the screws in his were mild steel….and there is a lot of teak to keep on top of even if you just leave it natural…..plus he had a bulkhead rot away (one behind the engine) due to the fact water collected on the decks.

There is a really good article on them in Pacificyachting.com dated 7/2/22 about the issues that can arise from the build quality as they were built down to a price back in the day……‘proper’ looking boats if you are aware and can deal with issues.

A lot of them in America have had the decks taken off and glassed over.
The trawler forum is a very good source of info.
 
So apparently the engine issue has been fixed.

I am informed it was simply a loose grub screw on the drive shaft from the injection pump to water pump. So after extremely difficult access to get to the pump the impeller was seen to be visually OK, so was not replaced - I find that part very concerning, especially after the effort needed to get to the damn thing. I would have simply renewed it whatever condition it appeared to be in.

I still have no idea about what state the cooers might be in.

So what now ?

I still like the boat, and there is nothing else around that I like presently, but the price I had agreed is now simply wrong, and whereas the engines do now apparently work, they are still likely neglected, as the recent effort has solely been the bare minimum to fix the water pump.

Do I suggest I undertake a more in depth check of the engines - cooler inspection, oil tests, etc ?

Do I lodge an unconditional offer at a price I would be happy with (and that will undoubtedly p1$$ the vendor off), and then retire to see what happens in a few more weeks ?

Of course he could find someone else who will pay more, but taking account of the general poor presentation this one is never going to have would-be purchasers forming a queue. Indeed if he did find someone willing to part with more cash than sense I would wish them both all the best and move on.
 
Oil sample at your cost and sea trial with no deposit. A good run should give you some good insight.

With how you have been messed about….the broker/seller should be more than happy to commit a few litres of fuel and a bit of time. For you it’s an afternoon out and an oil test.

You can then consider what you want to do….dig further etc…
 
I reckon you could repower that for £15k, a pair of Mermaid JCB motors , 80hp NA, less what you sell off the old gear.

So, offer to meet them a bit towards it, knock £12k off your offer.

Go boating, keep eyes open for a decent pair, 2722e Dover 4 pot NA is what you want, if there's a catastrophy before decent used ones come up buy a new pair and crack on.
 
If only someone made outboard powered trawler style boats Trevor!

As you know, I like to go boating rather than fiddle with inboards (and stern drives.....)
 
superheat6k said:
So apparently the engine issue has been fixed.

I am informed it was simply a loose grub screw on the drive shaft from the injection pump to water pump. So after extremely difficult access to get to the pump the impeller was seen to be visually OK, so was not replaced - I find that part very concerning, especially after the effort needed to get to the damn thing. I would have simply renewed it whatever condition it appeared to be in.

I still have no idea about what state the cooers might be in.

So what now ?

I still like the boat, and there is nothing else around that I like presently, but the price I had agreed is now simply wrong, and whereas the engines do now apparently work, they are still likely neglected, as the recent effort has solely been the bare minimum to fix the water pump.

Do I suggest I undertake a more in depth check of the engines - cooler inspection, oil tests, etc ?

Do I lodge an unconditional offer at a price I would be happy with (and that will undoubtedly p1$$ the vendor off), and then retire to see what happens in a few more weeks ?

Of course he could find someone else who will pay more, but taking account of the general poor presentation this one is never going to have would-be purchasers forming a queue. Indeed if he did find someone willing to part with more cash than sense I would wish them both all the best and move on.
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You might want to check the water pump drive on the other engine. From what I remember, the grub screw on that side was missing altogether.
If you do sea trial, I wouldn't go 5 metres without getting the owner to change those impellers.
Do also check the seacock on that STB engine. Could it be seized open with the lever sheared off, and evidence of some enthusiastic hammer work? Might also be worth having a look at the holding tank :eek:. Also remember that the engines are EBRO D4220s of 3.6 litres, not the 4.1 litres of the Ford Dorsets/Dovers, and they are from a design that Ford abandoned in 1963/4.
 
andrewbarker said:
Also remember that the engines are EBRO D4220s of 3.6 litres, not the 4.1 litres of the Ford Dorsets/Dovers, and they are from a design that Ford abandoned in 1963/4.
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Got caught in a parade of old tractors today just outside Witchampton and there were several Ford Majors including a 6 cylinder from that era as well as a couple of 3000 and 4000 models from the "new" post 1965 range. Brought back memories as in post#82
 
Tranona said:
Got caught in a parade of old tractors today just outside Witchampton and there were several Ford Majors including a 6 cylinder from that era as well as a couple of 3000 and 4000 models from the "new" post 1965 range. Brought back memories as in post#82
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I just heard that inappropriate tractor watching can be misinterpreted , be very careful, there are spies about. :ROFLMAO:
 
burgundyben said:
Lehman marinised them.

But they could be Dorset or Dover, Dover was a new generation of block, less smoke and less oil .

Numbers cast on block near starter motor

Dorset 2700 to 2719.

DOVER 2720 upwards, I think 4 pot Na is 2722e.

Dovers have a round cover held on with 5 small bolts on the front of the timing cover right where the injection pump gear wheel is.
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Not sure about less smoke with the Dovers, I'm looking at getting the de-smoke kit on one to see if they do make a worthwhile difference.
 
Robin said:
I just heard that inappropriate tractor watching can be misinterpreted , be very careful, there are spies about. :ROFLMAO:
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Yes, just read that in the paper. Anyway his party want 50% of their MPs to be female perhaps because they don't look for tractors or watch pornography. However several of the tractor drivers yesterday were female including a couple driving new style huge John Deeres.
 
burgundyben said:
Totally right. That exactly reflects my knowledge of old Fords.

What I dont get is why the boat Trev says in #32 was built in 1978 has a 4D. Dorset had been in production a decade by then, so why does that boat have such an older engine.

Nice pair of 2722 turbo motors would be nice in there.
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Thanks to the excellent advice on this forum I have been doing some reading on the base Ford engines. Unfortunately I don't have the nameplate details for the specific engines although I am trying to find this out, but it is likely these are older design 'Dagenham' models, but that were built by the Ford factory in Ebro, Spain, where apparently they were made right up until 1991.

But there is also a possibility these were secondhand engines from another source that were marinised using kits Lehman were supplying, in which case the providence of these could be quite concerning especially as they could be 60 years old, and the quality of the conversion is not known, although to be fair they have served this boat for 44 years. If they are 60 years old then I would regard them as time served. Hopefully the engine marks will reveal a date code somewhere.

What is of greatest concern is that under their current ownership at least they have been neglected.

I have requested permission to take oil samples to send to Finnings, plus at the same time examine the internals of the heat exchangers on the seawater side.

I have send an enquiry to Timik Marine and will see what they suggest in regard to P&A for a pair of replacement remanufactured engines. Once I have this I will factor all this into a final offer.

Thanks for everyone who has contributed their knowledge here. I for one certainly know a lot more about the Ford diesel engine ranges from the 1950 - 2000 period.
 
Despite much scanning, I have not seen this one, so thanks. Certainly a completely transformed boat.

I have contacted the broker, so we will see because this one could tick all the boxes if the current sale falls through.

It is interesting to see the engines are identical, which does increase confidence these would have been new on both this and the other one I am interested in. For this one though quite a price still for these older engines.

I have also found a delightful Grand Banks 36 which is simply stunning, but the price is a bit spicy presently.
 
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