Ignoring COVID-19 regulations

JumbleDuck

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On the strength of a 1 in 1720 chance of catching it and dying from it, the public are now wearing masks in the open air, dancing around everyone they meet and queuing in hot sun for an hour to get into a shop.
No. We're doing all that to protect the subset of people with a very much higher chance of serious illness or death. It's not all about us personally.
 
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No. We're doing all that to protect the subset of people with a very much higher chance of serious illness or death. It's not all about us personally.
As a 73 year-old bloke with heart disease I'm one of that sub-set. It's a load of baloney. I've never caught a cold ("corona virus") from someone I met in a shop. I've certainly never caught one walking down the road.
 

[165264]

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Am I the only one expecting a new peak and reimposed restrictions in the next month? Politicians can't admit it publicly, but the lockdown was only ever about reducing the load on the NHS.

ISTM there are only four exits from the pandemic, in no particular order.

1. An effective vaccine - likely, but will take a while
2. Herd immunity - most of us will get it, some will die, but in the absence of any of the other exits, we'll get there, like it or not.
3. The virus mutates and becomes less harmful - just another cold. Could happen, but it's far from inevitable and, if it does, it could well be in part because of a partial immunity from 2
4. It disappears like SARS and MERS. - Track and trace was far easier with SARS, because it produced symptoms quickly and asymptomatic infections didn't seem to happen, but it did seem to work. MERS was far less contagious, R<1, after an initial rash of cases, so it just faded out.

Even if we do get a vaccine, it's likely those who can't have it for various reasons will still be vulnerable. Even before it's available, anti-vaxxers are hard at work with their lies, damned lies and dodgy science. IIRC, a recent poll in the US found that only about half of those questioned would take a CV vaccine, and that's way short of the numbers needed to protect the involuntarily unvaccinated.
5 The virus mutates and gets worse: millions die. Boats get cheaper.
 

[165264]

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IMHO people are much less socially distanced than they were & I can’t see how we’d avoid a rise in cases. So I wonder if the government is planning to follow the Swedish model next time.
Many fatalities were in care homes which were left to cope as best they could, but in a second wave they might be better prepared.
So basically carry on and hope for the best?
They may- but Sweden's a disaster too.
 

[165264]

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As a 73 year-old bloke with heart disease I'm one of that sub-set. It's a load of baloney. I've never caught a cold ("corona virus") from someone I met in a shop. I've certainly never caught one walking down the road.
Unless you can prove that statement, I think it is what we call "an assertion".
 

ryanroberts

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The channel islands are taking this very seriously. Zero active cases in Guernsey and they want to keep it that way. Individual interviews and registration for quarantine at the airport, 10k fines for violation. Asked the Alderney harbourmaster about going into Braye (but not landing) as it is all a bit northerly. today and he sounded nervous despite our paperwork . Didn't really want to get wickermanned so cancelled that plan. They have some geographical and small scale / homogeneous societal advantages when it comes to enforcing this stuff. I was wearing a mask in the supermarket before it was cool. Still going to sleep on my boat though unless I get dragged off it.
 

JumbleDuck

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As a 73 year-old bloke with heart disease I'm one of that sub-set. It's a load of baloney. I've never caught a cold ("corona virus") from someone I met in a shop. I've certainly never caught one walking down the road.
How do you know? Anyway, that's like saying "The idea that smoking causes cancer is ridiculous because I'm smoker and I haven't got lung cancer".
 

Mark-1

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As a 73 year-old bloke with heart disease I'm one of that sub-set. It's a load of baloney. I've never caught a cold ("corona virus") from someone I met in a shop. I've certainly never caught one walking down the road.

A month ago this would have been an extreme view but I think the world is slowly coming around to to seeing it that way.

As time goes on CV is starting to look like most cold and respiratory viruses that are typically passed on in enclosed spaces with poor ventilation and in close contact with other people. Not outside walking past people momentarily. There's growing evidence that masks do help a lot as well and in places that have prevented the spread masks have been standard attire when you have a 'cold' for donkey's years. The countries that have done well have done it by doing the basics - the stuff they'd do anyway to avoid catching/spreading a cold.

This is a Japanese public health notice:

page1-424px-Japanese_Ministry_of_Health_Labour_and_Welfare__Three_Cs_.pdf.jpg

Simple stuff that Grandma would have told us.

It really is starting to look like this could have been handled with simple, low tech public health measures. We might find that better ventilation in hospitals and carehomes would have been far more effective than stopping people fell walking. (...and by better ventilation, they just mean opening a few windows to dilute the virus down with a bit of airflow, nothing high tech.)

We'll find out in the years to come but I suspect the lesson for the West from this will be that we really should have treated it much more like a cold. Anchoring, sunbathing and fell walking: good. Sitting 24/7 in large groups in a carehome with regular staff movements, all the windows closed and no masks on: bad.

Plus, of course, if you're outside you're getting plenty of Vitamin D which is critical to the immune system.

Time will tell.
 
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A month ago this would have been an extreme view but I think the world is slowly coming around to to seeing it that way.

As time goes on CV is starting to look like most cold and respiratory viruses that are typically passed on in enclosed spaces with poor ventilation and in close contact with other people. Not outside walking past people momentarily. There's growing evidence that masks do help a lot as well and in places that have prevented the spread masks have been standard attire when you have a 'cold' for donkey's years. The countries that have done well have done it by doing the basics - the stuff they'd do anyway to avoid catching/spreading a cold.

This is a Japanese public health notice:

View attachment 91671

Simple stuff that Grandma would have told us.

It really is starting to look like this could have been handled with simple, low tech public health measures. We might find that better ventilation in hospitals and carehomes would have been far more effective that stopping people fell walking. (...and by better ventilation, they just mean opening a few windows to dilute the virus down with a bit of airflow, nothing high tech.)

We'll find out in the years to come but I suspect the lesson for the West from this will be that we really should have treated it much more like a cold. Anchoring, sunbathing and fell walking: good. Sitting 24/7 in large groups in a carehome with regular staff movements, all the windows closed and no masks on: bad.

Plus, of course, if you're outside you're getting plenty of Vitamin D which is critical to the immune system.

Time will tell.
"We might find that better ventilation in hospitals and carehomes would have been far more effective that stopping people fell walking. (...and by better ventilation, they just mean opening a few windows to dilute the virus down with a bit of airflow, nothing high tech.)"

I mentioned a month or so ago the irony of naming the Excel hospital as "Nightingale" when it was reported that the top-down re-circulating air conditioning there was likely to spread the virus among occupants. One of the key features of the original Nightingale hospitals 150 years ago was high-ceilinged wards with huge opening sash windows. We haven't learned a lot in all that time.
 
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Unless you can prove that statement, I think it is what we call "an assertion".
It's a fact that despite GP's advice and warnings I haven't had a flu injection since heart surgery 22 years ago and I haven't had flu either. Simple precautions have prevented it, just as they will this virus. Despite it having some dire symptoms for a minority of patients there's no evidence that it's any more contagious than other cold and flu viruses. I'm capable of looking after myself without the government having to close down the country on my behalf thanks.

The indirect cost of all this is still to be measured and may never been known but it's already been suggested that more people may have died or will die through delayed treatment of other serious illnesses than have died of the virus or been saved by the lockdown.
 
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I see in the Commons debate today that an Opposition claim that "systemic injustice" had led to disproportionate Covid deaths among the BAME population was dismissed by Equalities Minister Kemi Badenoch, who said that "Britain was one of the best countries in the world in which to be a black person."

Stand by for indignation from some of the 54 countries in Africa.
 

[159032]

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It's a fact that despite GP's advice and warnings I haven't had a flu injection since heart surgery 22 years ago and I haven't had flu either. Simple precautions have prevented it, just as they will this virus. Despite it having some dire symptoms for a minority of patients there's no evidence that it's any more contagious than other cold and flu viruses. I'm capable of looking after myself without the government having to close down the country on my behalf thanks.

The indirect cost of all this is still to be measured and may never been known but it's already been suggested that more people may have died or will die through delayed treatment of other serious illnesses than have died of the virus or been saved by the lockdown.

Ah. I think your opinion may not have a great deal of support on that.

In April it was being reported
In both the flu and coronavirus, the main method of transmission appears to be from person to person via respiratory transmission—essentially by coming in close contact (within six feet) with respiratory droplets from the coughs and sneezes of infected people. The flu and coronavirus also have similar periods of time when people are asymptomatic but still contagious. “It appears that with both viruses, people may be able to transmit the virus before they are symptomatic,” explains Dr. Juthani.
However, the latest evidence suggests COVID-19 is much more contagious and spreads more rapidly than the flu.
Is the Coronavirus Worse Than the Flu? We Asked Experts

.
 
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MarkCX

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It's a fact that despite GP's advice and warnings I haven't had a flu injection since heart surgery 22 years ago and I haven't had flu either. Simple precautions have prevented it, just as they will this virus. Despite it having some dire symptoms for a minority of patients there's no evidence that it's any more contagious than other cold and flu viruses. I'm capable of looking after myself without the government having to close down the country on my behalf thanks.

You say you haven’t had any of these viruses, but it could be you’ve had them, but not had any symptoms (asymptomatic) and just been merrily passing them on to others... or maybe not, but there’s absolutely no way you’d know. I’m glad you’re in good health, I’m really pleased. This has killed two otherwise ‘healthy’ people that I know.
 

Bluetack42

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Going back to the OP’s question, should one follow the rules or use their instinct? He asked it about the trival question of staying overnight on a boat, but its a subset of a much deeper personal philosophy, once you’ve figured that out where you stand on that for yourself the answer to the anchoring question will be easy.

For myself I know how I would like to be able to answer:

As a white police office in 1960’s USA, I would not push black women off busses, Even if I lost my job

As a white police office outside a London Police station in 2020 I would bend the knee to show solidarity, Even if I lost my job

As a German soldier in 1939.........etc etc

You get the idea, blindly following the rules has always got us into trouble, god gave you a brain, Use it!
 

canvey

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I asked in another thread but thought I'd ask again here.

Does anyone know what the RYA has done or is doing about this? I am afraid that as soon as I read their "Be Conservative" poster, I cancelled my membership.

I've been reading that the angling trust applied for legal advice and lobbied DEFRA and other agencies to get the go ahead for overnight fishing. Would have though overnight fishing was a lot less of a reasonable excuse than staying overnight after going to check moorings and pump out bilges.

Seems to all boil down to what your interpretation of "reasonable excuse" is.

Concerned as boat has a tendency to fill with water and warm weather ill lead to condensation and mould.

Rules and the manner in which they are being applied are idiocy.
 

canvey

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Equalities Minister Kemi Badenoch, who said that "Britain was one of the best countries in the world in which to be a black person."

Stand by for indignation from some of the 54 countries in Africa.
Name one where it is better.

I live surrounded by them and I can tell you the reasons are mostly all reasons that The Guardian won't be able to admit. It's all very depressing. Complete wholesale ignorance of the guidelines. And I've never seen the one published in any other language than English, so how do they government expect them to know? There's a video online of a huge street party on an estate and you can hear one of them asking the police who are there to shut it down asking, "Is it real, this covid-19?"
 
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