If your boat was accidently dropped by the boatyard!

noswellplease

noswellplease

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The above happened to me and the yard went into overdrive to repair the fractured hull. Ok so its now better than before they tell me...but what of the depreciation, and the small things you discover over time that have also been damaged.Then you have to inform any future buyer of the mishap and damage.So you can only lose every way, or am I missing something? In trying to stay evenkeeled (sorry) and not running to expensive lawyers to write threatning letters.......I end up at a loss every way you look......or am I missing something?..... boats aaahhh
 
HI 'noswellplease'! What a name for somebody who sails off the fantastic Kerry coast! Down your neck of the woods over last summer! Fantastic crusing area. If the boat is now 100% ok then perhaps just enjoy, you may have years of use before you come to sell. On the other hand if she is not 100% the yard will have insurance and you could claim compensation for loss of value - but the hassle and legal costs - might be easier just enjoy sailing her. Other option is try to force yard to buy her off you now at her market value before she was dropped, and let them sell her (might have been the way to go before repaired)

No Kerry swell today - can you beleive it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
DSCF2514.JPG


Fenit, Dingle, Kenmare, Bantry all just wow!
 
Sorry, but I think the best that you can do is insist that the insurer pays for an independent survey on completion of the work and that you get a full warranty from the yard.

The issue of increased depreciation has always bugged me and, as far as I'm aware, is not taken in to account in insurance settlements. They only ever seem to pay for the repair of a car and not for any subsequent reduction in value. I learnt long ago never to have any bodywork carried out by a main dealer when I had my Merc bumped up the back by some oik. Having taken the car to the dealer, for what was an excellent repair with the added assurance that I was keeping the warranty valid (I wasn't paying), I found, when the time came to trade for new, that the salesman was reducing my cars value due to the past accident damage that was on their records!

If you keep the boat a few more years and, in so doing, prove the durability of the repair the incident will probably have little impact on value. You have my sympathy though.
 
i would definitely insist on an independant surveyor,answering to you but paid for by the yard.His supervision of the repair and final report may help when you come to sell one day.
 
you are entitled to employ your own surveyor and you should do so; firstly to provide an opinion as to what should be repaired and secondly to confirm that the repairs have been completed to your surveyor's satisfaction.

remove as much of the interior as you possibly can to expose the bare hull such that any damage which might otherwise be hidden can be seen. don't rely on any surveyor to do this - do it yourself prior to your surveyor's visit.

subsequent damage can be claimed although you are much better advised, obviously, to find it now. after a year or so it becomes much more difficult to prove damage was caused by the original accident.

be very particular about the engine transmission and mounts. the shock could have damaged the engine mounts, the engine mount castings, the final drive from the gearbox and the shaft seal. ditto rudder, mast mount and spreaders etc

you should find that the yard will not give the boat back unless in good order - their reputation will have suffered enough without risking further loss by a dissatisfied customer ....
 
Many years ago, before my boatyard had a proper hoist, they used to hire a crane for a day each Spring and Autumn to do the lifts. I always used to attend to watch my 35' cruiser being lifted.
One November day as my boat was being lifted out, one of the crane legs suddenly dropped beneath the ground by about a metre. The crane driver had the presence of mind to release the load and drop the boat back into the water from about 4 metres. Apart from causing a spectacular splash, close examination revealed no damage. This was a seventies boat and built like the proverbial brick outhouse.

During a chance conversation at the last Southampton Boat Show, I discovered she was still alive and well and living in the Isle of Wight. I won't give her name though in case the owner is reading this!

Phil
 
Sorry to hear of your predicament and hope the end result is satisfactory.

You may wish to consider taking photographs of the repair work (inside & out) and any other areas that may cause concern. Keep a copy of each print yourself and give copies to the boatyard.

Should anything untoward materialise in the future you would have, for comparison, visual evidence of the condition after the repair.

Just a thought!
 
Be careful how you approach this.

Does the yard have a disclaimer that they can hide behind if you get nasty with them. Check the small print on previous invoices.

Is there signs up disclaiming liability for damage. Did you get a quote with terms and conditions on the back.

Often companies will not use these clauses, until they involve their solicitors, which they will if you involve yours.

Get the boat surveyed yourself independantly and make sure that the surveyor has some proper qualifications.

If there is a problem consider approaching the yard with a list of what you want/need done to put you back in the position you would have been but for their actions.

It might be difficult to get cash from the yard but maybe they would give you free storage for a few seasons or do some work for you.

Before you go near solicitors know what you need/want done, be seen to be reasonable, to approach the others only after taking constructive advice ie, surveyor.

Be aware of the army deafness claims- think of those that went to their solicitors before the ear specialist. You want your boat right, not a win in court.

tony.

follow the above,or not, entirely at your own peril.
 
hmm .. ! would make quite a splash ..

if a crane has been hired by a company, then the risk is entirely the hirers. their T&Cs are the standard plant hirer & contractors terms. rather oddly, if hired by an individual, the risk is with the crane cpy. in both cases, it makes no difference if the crane cpy provides a driver .. so a real muppet of a driver would be responsible only if you'd hired him & his crane as a private individual ...
 
Both sides can contract in or out of the standard conditions. Only if no discussion on the terms has taken place will the standard terms be deemed to apply. If it is a private individual he will be able to say he was not aware of the standard t&cs. But if he has been made aware of them, in particular nasty or tricky ones while he still had a realistic choice to refuse the hire then he will be bound by them.

I think.
 
[ QUOTE ]
if a crane has been hired by a company, then the risk is entirely the hirers. their T&Cs are the standard plant hirer & contractors terms. rather oddly, if hired by an individual, the risk is with the crane cpy. in both cases, it makes no difference if the crane cpy provides a driver .. so a real muppet of a driver would be responsible only if you'd hired him & his crane as a private individual ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nearly. If you do a straight hire of a crane, the hire company is responsible for providing the crane plus driver, both in good condition with appropriate paperwork. You are then responsible for designing the lift, and carrying out a risk assessment (Appointed Person), supervising the operation (Crane Supervisor), rigging and directing the lift (Slinger). In this case, if the ground gives way under the crane, its your fault because you were responsible for assessing ground conditions (amongst many other things).

Alternatively, if you opt for a contract lift, the hire company assumes all responsibility. As well as the crane & driver, they will supply an Appointed Person to do the design & risk assessment, a crane supervisor, and a slinger. You will then just be responsible for answering any relevant questions they may ask. In this case, they are liable if the ground gives way, unless they ca prove you withheld information abou (for example) underground services.
 
I ws told this by the underwriter. After a bit of research, what i think he might have been referring to was a passage in the T&C's used by most crane hire companies:-

the T&C's do not apply to a consumer contract where a “Consumer Contract” is a contract entered into with a person acting in his own capacity and not for or on behalf of any business or trade entity.
 
Am I following this right?

Unless you very obviously entered into some kind of alternative arrangement with the company providing services then (if you are an individual) T & C's don't apply? And what does apply is the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 where traders are obliged to sell goods that are as described and of satisfactory quality, and to provide services that are to a proper standard of workmanship?
 
If the boat were properly repaired to a surveyors satisfaction I would not feel obliged to tell any purchaser unless he asked specifically about repairs. And even then, if it is as good as new, why should it be worth any less?

The key is to employ a reputable surveyor (at the yards expense) and get him to put his conclusions in writing.

In principle you are entitled to be restored to the position you were in before the accident or as near as is possible. That means you are entitled to compensation if depreciation can be proved - but can it?

One thing for sure, legal advice from this forum isnt worth the paper it isnt written on. If you are really unhappy, talk to a lawyer. The first chat will be reasonable if not free. As long as you avoid taking the issue legally much further you should be able to keep costs reasonable. Just be careful - lawyers are incentivised to grow arguments not to solve them.
 
Not strictly on the same subject, but I would be claiming for depreciation of your boat, on the grounds that any damage will result in loss of value.
A few years ago my boat was damaged by a third party whilst moored alongside, other party's insurers paid for repairs, but on the above grounds I presented them with a claim for £1500, they sent another Surveyor to look at my boat, he agreed that if I wanted to sell the boat I should have to tell the buyer about the damage and repair, he estimated that the loss of value would be in the region of £1000 and the other party's insurer paid me this amount.
 
Excellent link Pandos!

"White v John Warwick [1953] 1 WLR 1285

The plaintiff hired a trademan's cycle from the defendants. The written agreement stated that "Nothing in this agreement shall render the owners liable for any personal injury". While the plaintiff was riding the cycle, the saddle tilted forward and he was injured. The defendants might have been liable in tort (for negligence) as well as in contract. The Court of Appeal held that the ambiguous wording out of the exclusion clause would effectively protect the defendants from their strict contractual liability, but it would not exempt them from liability in negligence."

So, was there negligence?
 
However this is a contract between two companies where Consumer law does not apply (unlike the case we have before us, your honour) and one can also assume that the plaintiffs were able to insure themselves against such an eventuality (in this case a sub-contracter's employee intentionally starting a fire that destroyed the whole building!).
 
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