If you were buying a cruiser...

Nosing around the Bens and Jens at SIBS, I was disappointed, but not surprised, to find that I could push my thumbnail into the veneer on the square edged furniture and doors. The Bavs we're fractionally better, in this respect but not much. None are likely to wear well.
 
I have a 2005 Jen, last of the wooden floor range.

I spent £2000 on capping all the doors with real teak, new saloon table and other cabinet work, all blended to the original Jen satin finish. It looks the business now, so I saved £100k over a Southerly, ended up with what I wanted in the first place.

I also despair of the furniture in the last 6 or so years, I wish I wasn't saying that, because it sounds like I am being overprotective of my purchase choice.
 
Simondjuk said:
Nosing around the Bens and Jens at SIBS, I was disappointed, but not surprised, to find that I could push my thumbnail into the veneer on the square edged furniture and doors. The Bavs we're fractionally better, in this respect but not much. None are likely to wear well.
Click to expand...

When I had cause to sail a lot of benes and jens etc in the late '90's the consensus was exactly the same. Flimsy, will look shabby in a year or two, nowhere near as good as the previous generation etc, but nevertheless a most of 'em seemed to have held together quite well!

Some haven't though. Likewise, some of the previous generation to that, with what was considered 'quality' interior woodwork look dank and mouldy.

However, some look fantastic, almost better than new!

Depends how much graft and / or money the owner has been willing to spend. Perhaps the same is true of this generation.

Personally, I like the new hard chined hullshape. Kinda retro!
 
jimi said:
Post purchase rationalisation aka Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome ;-)
Click to expand...

Nope, not me.
At least I knew what I wanted to do with the interior to change it, and started before it splashed into the water for the first time.

Just that the 'base' material of todays offerings does not inspire me to do it again, only better.

My companionway varnishing now needs doing though.
 
obmij said:
When I had cause to sail a lot of benes and jens etc in the late '90's the consensus was exactly the same. Flimsy, will look shabby in a year or two, nowhere near as good as the previous generation etc, but nevertheless a most of 'em seemed to have held together quite well!

Some haven't though. Likewise, some of the previous generation to that, with what was considered 'quality' interior woodwork look dank and mouldy.

However, some look fantastic, almost better than new!

Depends how much graft and / or money the owner has been willing to spend. Perhaps the same is true of this generation.

Personally, I like the new hard chined hullshape. Kinda retro!
Click to expand...

This was in a different league though. Think along the lines of the door of a cheap kitchen cabinet and how soft the vinyl veneer is on those. The, erm, 'joinery' in these latest generation boats was similar. I could have scraped the corners off with a fingernail, the veneer had seams running the entire length of the edges of some mouldings, and one forepeak door was so flimsy that the hold-back clip at the bottom wouldn't engage before the door flexed so much that the handle came up against the bulkhead first - you had to push the door near the clip to get it in. I was afraid to touch anything after a while.

As for some of the massive sealant joins between the deck and some of the tack-on fairing panels for halyard gulleys and the like.... :ambivalence:
 
Iquite like most of the styling of the modern new boat with only two serious caveats - the wide shallow cockpits and the excessive freeboard. What stops me buying are bthe prices. Even afte reducing interior quality to mfi standards ( below ikea) you can end up paying near 150k for a 37 ft starter Bav. I just dont understand why awb prices have gone up so much faster than inflation. Cartel?
 
birdseye said:
Iquite like most of the styling of the modern new boat with only two serious caveats - the wide shallow cockpits and the excessive freeboard. What stops me buying are bthe prices. Even afte reducing interior quality to mfi standards ( below ikea) you can end up paying near 150k for a 37 ft starter Bav. I just dont understand why awb prices have gone up so much faster than inflation. Cartel?
Click to expand...

I suspect a lot has to do with the price of oil.

It's used in GRP, to manufacture and ship almost everything, and it's shot up a lot over the last 5 or 6 years.
 
Sometimes the phrase "a well looked after boat 10 years old is better" makes me wondering. What does it mean? A boat, any boat, that was well looked after or a 10 years old design boat. I am hearing this phrase (or similar) since 2007 which I bought my boat and started reading forums, following the boating "community" and so on. My boat is a 2002 model. I am taking good care of it for many reasons (mainly safety) and now, that is 12 years old, is in a very good condition and this despite using it very often (all around the year; I am based in the Med). So does this now make it a better boat than a brand new model?
 
Thought long and hard about this thread as we can all give advice based on our own values but they wont necessarily be the values that buyers of S/H boats want in 5 yrs!

Fashions do change and I am about to change the advacardo downstairs loo in the house that I bought in 1988!! However trends are more important.

Boats that give faster cruising speeds and are light and airy inside are the trend IMHO.

Like many I do not like modern internal furniture made like IKEA and don't think it will wear well but give the builder credit these are only introduced to keep the headline buying price to a minimum. I like Full Circles idea of enhacing the existing furiture etc with timber edging.

Myself I like the lightness of a DS interior and intend to spend quite a lot bringing our 2005 boat to as new standard (with the helpful advice I am getting on here) but fortunately most of it is good vaneer with solid timber edging unlike more recent boats. It would probably be more economic to sell existing and buy a new boat! I suspect the owners of late 90's to say 2005 range of production boats will become just as scathing of new boats (all laminate) as the owners of the 80's & 90's production boats (when a Bavaria had a Lloyds build certificate) were of our then "newer" boats! Before that it would be owners of long keel boats being critical of any production boat!!

For the above reasons I would suggest if you follow the trend and go for beamy sterns , fast cruising hulls and a light interior you should not go too far wrong.
 
Last edited:
cmedsailor said:
Sometimes the phrase "a well looked after boat 10 years old is better" makes me wondering. What does it mean? A boat, any boat, that was well looked after or a 10 years old design boat. I am hearing this phrase (or similar) since 2007 which I bought my boat and started reading forums, following the boating "community" and so on. My boat is a 2002 model. I am taking good care of it for many reasons (mainly safety) and now, that is 12 years old, is in a very good condition and this despite using it very often (all around the year; I am based in the Med). So does this now make it a better boat than a brand new model?
Click to expand...

While modern boats are structurally sound as the materials used are better understood for economics for any given length of boat they are much lighter. It doesn't necessarily make the old boats stronger but certainly more solid (and slower!).

No its not better but typical of a heavier build and ones from the 90's will be even heavier.

I started an analysis in 1998 when looking at buying our first boat and rather than look at £ per ft of length found that £ per kg of weight a better guide.
 
LadyInBed said:
These look pdg to me, and I'm definitely not AWB

medium_20_lux_jeanneau57.jpg
Click to expand...

If you compare that to the previous model you will find that the gunwale has lost it's aluminium toerail, so fender lines will rub and chafe the GRP edge. The transom has lost it's rubber 'bumper' which is very useful if springing the bow out of a berth. Go back another model generation or two and the alloy toerail will be properly bolted (not self-tapper screwed) down and slotted for attaching blocks etc.

I like much that has changed in yacht design, even twin wheels at times, but there are retrograde steps in construction, all for cheaper build.
 
OR4751 said:
+1

This is my main gripe with newer designs.
Most design changes have been focused on a cheaper build and not so much on performance/quality/durability. :(
Click to expand...

I think you need to distinguish between changes in construction techniques which are mostly made to reduce build costs and other changes which are made to attract customers in some way. The majority of complaints from traditionalists here are not so much about the use of cheaper materials for interior construction but more about the shape of new boats with wide, walk-through transoms, large cockpits, high freeboard and large windows. None of these reduce build costs - they (apparently) satisfy changing requirements from the sailing public.
 
maby said:
I think you need to distinguish between changes in construction techniques which are mostly made to reduce build costs and other changes which are made to attract customers in some way. The majority of complaints from traditionalists here are not so much about the use of cheaper materials for interior construction but more about the shape of new boats with wide, walk-through transoms, large cockpits, high freeboard and large windows. None of these reduce build costs - they (apparently) satisfy changing requirements from the sailing public.
Click to expand...

And it can not be denied that the fully encapsulated keel (now bolt on) and the skeg hung rudder (now spade) where abandoned purely to keep costs down.
 
OR4751 said:
And it can not be denied that the fully encapsulated keel (now bolt on) and the skeg hung rudder (now spade) where abandoned purely to keep costs down.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. The shape of my keel looks pretty good for sailing purposes - quite narrow in cross-section, though a reasonable length fore-to-aft, with a hefty bulb on the bottom. There's no way that could be moulded as part of a GRP hull with any conventional technique.

Pete
 
We had a 2003 Bavaria 38, with the dark interior, which I liked. My wife would prefer the newer model with the light interior if we buy again. But she liked the fact the saloon lockers had doors on in our boat, which on the newer models were open.
As to two wheels for the sort of sailing we did it was not necessary and it inevitably reduces the length of the cockpit seats, so makes it less likely you can lay fully out stretched out on, which is an essential for us:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top