markc
Well-Known Member
Act in haste and enjoy life
If you Snooze you loose - The truth v the Theory
- Thread starter Bigplumbs
- Start date
Act in haste and enjoy life
Montemar
Well-Known Member
Carpe diem!
Who knows..
Who knows..
beejay190
Well-Known Member
The other guy may have paid the deposit subject to sea trial, survey and paperwork checks. In that case it is back to the theory.
benchmark
Well-Known Member
Maybe i am being a bit harsh but the highlighted statement in your quote above is for me the problem, when I sold my previous 2 boats you won't believe the number of potential buyers who used the excuse 'I need to talk with my wife' and disappeared just because I refused their own offers.
Firstly, if you knew the price of the boat before you went to inspect it, Why not talk with the wife before you go to see it and prior to this agree that you will commit if the boat is as expected .
Secondly, you state
in your post, that statement alone for many is verbally non commital and hence the seller is of no obligation to wait, especially if another buyer arrives and wants to commit immediately.
Personally I can't blame the seller either ,who is probably reasoning along the lines of the old saying; a bird in hand, is worth more that two on a tree.
As you also say, you snooze....you loose.
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Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
I think it is important also that people understand that I am in no way annoyed with the seller, He did the right thing for him and in fact just before we left he asked me what he should do about the other buyers waiting in the shadows and I said he should show them around the boat. My point is this boat was very much a view, decide, buy and take away deal with none of the other stuff many of you keep referring to. In fact it was on ebay as a 'buy it now' so if anyone had clicked on that at any time it would have been interesting. The seller said he wanted to sell to me because I had not been pushy where as some others had in his view been quite rude referring to one as stalking him. I actually think he did not enjoy the whole experience.
To those who say you should know if it is for you before you view well that astonishes me as pictures tell one story but your own eyes tell a different one and after seeing it my wife said she was not sure and thought it was a little more tired than she had expected from the pics. We were away all weekend and only had our phones to view the pics on.
The other thing you should be aware of is that on the journey home after much discussion we had decided that it was actually not the boat for us and was about to tell the seller so just as we got his text. I then still sent my text to him anyway. telling him he did the right thing.
Threads on here have the habit of drifting off topic so to bring it back this is all about how the market seems to have changed and how in reality many boats are viewed and bought in this more simple way as opposed to what people seem to think is the route a sale takes case.
I currently have 6 + boats all at the smaller end of the scale including 3 17 foot sports boats, a sib a rib and a 19 foot sports cruiser (mostly all Fletchers) all of which cost less than £10K each and all were bought and paid for on the spot with no survey or any other of the stuff people speak of. I know this is a risk but at a certain value this is how things seem to be done. I think that value is creeping up to perhaps the £25K mark where this is the case.
Either way I and indeed the seller were quite amazed at the level of interest in the maxum
Dennis
To those who say you should know if it is for you before you view well that astonishes me as pictures tell one story but your own eyes tell a different one and after seeing it my wife said she was not sure and thought it was a little more tired than she had expected from the pics. We were away all weekend and only had our phones to view the pics on.
The other thing you should be aware of is that on the journey home after much discussion we had decided that it was actually not the boat for us and was about to tell the seller so just as we got his text. I then still sent my text to him anyway. telling him he did the right thing.
Threads on here have the habit of drifting off topic so to bring it back this is all about how the market seems to have changed and how in reality many boats are viewed and bought in this more simple way as opposed to what people seem to think is the route a sale takes case.
I currently have 6 + boats all at the smaller end of the scale including 3 17 foot sports boats, a sib a rib and a 19 foot sports cruiser (mostly all Fletchers) all of which cost less than £10K each and all were bought and paid for on the spot with no survey or any other of the stuff people speak of. I know this is a risk but at a certain value this is how things seem to be done. I think that value is creeping up to perhaps the £25K mark where this is the case.
Either way I and indeed the seller were quite amazed at the level of interest in the maxum
Dennis
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petem
Well-Known Member
Dennis, are you saying that there would have been no opportunity to have the boat sea trialled and surveyed? If that's the case then you really did waste a trip.
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
The seller was a lovely chap and was not pushy but he had bought the boat simply and I think that was what he expected on selling. With so many potential buyers I think those with the more complex approach would simply be out of contention because of the others.
No trip to a lovely marina is a waste of time in my view and we did learn some things and the journey down while long was quite nice in places.
The message is simple at a certain level people will just buy and take away as they would a bag of spuds. I am not saying this is how it should be but it is how it is sometimes.
Next one I look at I might just do the same. Call it trust, Stupidity, leap of faith or what you will it is sometimes what is needed.
Also with little time as in this case many real life things come in to play such as it was bank holiday, we were away in our caravan with limited signal and only phones, The seller was on the boat with limited signal, Ebay is a right pain, His paperwork was at home, The trailer was in a different location to the boat, The boat was in an area where many people had 10 times more cash than I have, Many people with bundles of cash were breathing down his neck, We were only 90 % certain, I am not working full time at the moment and not sure I want to, The boat show is pending, The seller was on the boat with his wife, 3 month old baby and dog so looking all over etc is not so easy.
Real life and theory are very different.
I know this is just one sale and experience but I think buying is much harder than some are aware and happens not as some expect.
Dennis
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jfm
Well-Known Member
I'm with Bigplumbs on this. There is no need to do the deposit-survey malarkey, if you don't want to and if you're sensible about risk-reward. Pete, you write as if no-survey buying is bad, but that is just your view and it took you years and years to buy a boat. My brother just bought a 74 foot Aquastar (£1/2m ball park) with no survey; his previous boat 15 years ago ditto; I have never commissioned a pre-purchase survey; the guy who bought my last boat (Sq78 for about £1.8m, 18mths old and 260hrs) didn't have a survey and I took his 3 yo Princess 62 in part-ex without a survey; and so on. And here's the thing: none of those unsurveyed boats broke down whereas your surveyed boat has!
This is all Bigplumbs is saying. As he says, "Real life and theory are very different". He is observing that no-one needs to follow the "boat buying formula" often espoused on here as if it were gospel, and that if you snooze you risk losing, that's all.
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Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
Thanks JFM. One of the issues I also have is that I am a Chartered Surveyor in the Construction industry and while I am not a surveyor in the sense we are speaking for buildings I know many who are and I also know the truth about many and much of the work they do and the caveats they add.
It is interesting that people are doing the simple purchase thing at what to me are huge values also
Regards
Dennis
jrudge
Well-Known Member
I bought the s58 based on my inspection and a 4 month old short survey the dealer had done when taking px. I found lots and lots of stuff ( not engines or structural ) the surveyor did not.
I don't think he did a bad job just different perspective of what matters and costs
I don't think he did a bad job just different perspective of what matters and costs
mlines
Well-Known Member
Bought our last boat without seeing it and without a survey. First sight was when it turned up when the previous owner delivered it. As said it was a Risk/Reward assessment based on, in this case, the level of trust we had in the seller.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
I or the broker kinda negotiated the price ( Naples ) before I flew
I went for a spin bought it - there n then hand shake then nice lunch
Wired the 10 % next day collected 2 weeks later
Spotted a few issues which broker agreed to do not trivia - new risers Anchor chain new indate flares
No survey my mate n myself did it
3years later it's not broken down and my1 st trip day after balance hit " sisters " bank ac
We set off to Cannes putting 4-5000 litres through it straight away
But it was fully equipped indate Life raft. EIRIB etc
Broker gave us spares toolkit and filters as well - all not needed
They only made approx 19 and I found it within 6 weeks of looking
It's a good un
I went for a spin bought it - there n then hand shake then nice lunch
Wired the 10 % next day collected 2 weeks later
Spotted a few issues which broker agreed to do not trivia - new risers Anchor chain new indate flares
No survey my mate n myself did it
3years later it's not broken down and my1 st trip day after balance hit " sisters " bank ac
We set off to Cannes putting 4-5000 litres through it straight away
But it was fully equipped indate Life raft. EIRIB etc
Broker gave us spares toolkit and filters as well - all not needed
They only made approx 19 and I found it within 6 weeks of looking
It's a good un
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Portofino
Well-Known Member
+1
petem
Well-Known Member
But "no survey" is bad if you're spending every last penny you have and are therefore reliant on the boat being sound (as may be the case here).
"No survey" is good if it means you can bag a bargain and can afford the consequences of it going TU.
It's all down to appetite for risk, knowing what you're doing and only gambling what you can afford to lose.
Pete
CLB
Well-Known Member
There are a few references to boats 'breaking down' in relation to surveys. Surely a survey is nothing to do with the boats reliability. Isn't it more about whether there is an inherent problem with the boat. A build issue, a structural failure, an unresolved defect, a bodged repair, Osmosis, water damage etc etc.
Imagine buying a £1.5m boat and finding out it needs another £100k spending on it to rectify a problem that the casual observer may not see. I know that 99 times out of a 100 there is no serious issue, and the survey just throws up the usual minor faults and defects, but it would be just my luck that after spending my lifetime savings I would be the 1 in a 100 if I didn't have a survey. In the financial stakes I am way down the lower ranks of the forum, but still see a few hundred £ as being a price worth paying for an experienced person to give my potential new boat a good look over. This is despite being more than able myself to spot the majority of common faults found on boats. I see it as an unbiased second opinion. Where would I draw the line? Probably at around £20k, but that's as much to do with my risk taking philosophy as anything else. I wouldn't ridicule someone having a survey on a £5k boat, if £5k was a significant sum that they couldn't afford to lose, but each to their own. Sadly I will never have to make that choice with regards to the sums mentioned in JFMs post
Imagine buying a £1.5m boat and finding out it needs another £100k spending on it to rectify a problem that the casual observer may not see. I know that 99 times out of a 100 there is no serious issue, and the survey just throws up the usual minor faults and defects, but it would be just my luck that after spending my lifetime savings I would be the 1 in a 100 if I didn't have a survey. In the financial stakes I am way down the lower ranks of the forum, but still see a few hundred £ as being a price worth paying for an experienced person to give my potential new boat a good look over. This is despite being more than able myself to spot the majority of common faults found on boats. I see it as an unbiased second opinion. Where would I draw the line? Probably at around £20k, but that's as much to do with my risk taking philosophy as anything else. I wouldn't ridicule someone having a survey on a £5k boat, if £5k was a significant sum that they couldn't afford to lose, but each to their own. Sadly I will never have to make that choice with regards to the sums mentioned in JFMs post
petem
Well-Known Member
Anyhow, IIRC your brother made a low BAFO / walk away offer on the basis of no survey and no faffing about. It doesn't sound like Bigplumbs would've got any discount despite not being able to have a survey / seatrial.
And your Princess 62, I wonder if you have a buyer already lined up to take it unseen so no risk to you anyway
.
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
I have a plan
How about some of us who are at the financial lower end of the forum go and nick the boats of some of those at the higher end and sell them on to chaps who don't want a survey or any of that other paperwork poo and we might get away with it. We might even be able to sell them back to the chaps we nicked them from in the first place if we are cunning
I actually bought the two houses I have owned without a Survey as I know that generally they are not worth the paper they are written on.............. Could not inspect the upper floors as carpets were laid.............. could not inspect the roof because stupid health and safety will not allow me in the loft in my suit..................... Could not test the drains cos I didn't know where they are..................
Is it much different with boats
Dennis
How about some of us who are at the financial lower end of the forum go and nick the boats of some of those at the higher end and sell them on to chaps who don't want a survey or any of that other paperwork poo and we might get away with it. We might even be able to sell them back to the chaps we nicked them from in the first place if we are cunning
I actually bought the two houses I have owned without a Survey as I know that generally they are not worth the paper they are written on.............. Could not inspect the upper floors as carpets were laid.............. could not inspect the roof because stupid health and safety will not allow me in the loft in my suit..................... Could not test the drains cos I didn't know where they are..................
Is it much different with boats
Dennis
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
It's always the one that got away...until the next one comes along and you wonder what you saw in the first one. Chin up, Dennis
jfm
Well-Known Member
Agreed. But I was responding to your post #26 (which I quoted) in which you said that if the target boat was not available to be surveyed then Dennis "really did waste a trip". That is tantamount to saying that surveys are pretty much universally necessary. My position is that they are just an item on the menu, that you can choose or decline, depending on risk/reward and risk appetite. You're now agreeing that I think. :encouragement:
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
I am fine now I bought a huge Cheff Special Kebab on the way home and ate it watching a Place in the Sun. I don't know if I like Jasmin better or Laura
