If Scotland leaves the Union, will I need a new Ensign?

Plomong said:
IIRC, this situation is foreseen in the relevant treaties/agreements, probably because of the situations in the Balkans and Eastern Europe. If a member state breaks into constituent parts, each of the parts is automatically part of the EU, no change of conditions, etc. Some conversations would probably be necessary, but that, not negotiation of a new treaty of adhesion.

Plomong
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That's all well and good but if the Scots don't like the deal they should be able to say no at that point and be free of the Euro nightmare at a stroke.
You can't award someone membership if they don't want it and say oh you must negotiate your way out.
 
Reverend Ludd said:
.... You can't award someone membership if they don't want it and say oh you must negotiate your way out.
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I think it would be reasonable to do exactly the breakaway state has received significant aid from the UE when it was part of the larger country before the separatist vote. The money that the EU has spent in Scotland was to provide growth that would benefit the EU indirectly. So giving that up is an issue that has to be addressed. I am in general supportive of independence as a concept to improve Scotland's lot but there are many, many serious questions that are not being answered yet. This is just one of them.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
I think it would be reasonable to do exactly the breakaway state has received significant aid from the UE when it was part of the larger country before the separatist vote. The money that the EU has spent in Scotland was to provide growth that would benefit the EU indirectly. So giving that up is an issue that has to be addressed. I am in general supportive of independence as a concept to improve Scotland's lot but there are many, many serious questions that are not being answered yet. This is just one of them.
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I guess it would come down to what the basis was of the funding it recieved. My guess is that, out of the "Union" an independent Scottish state could take whatever position it wanted as I doubt that when the money was given it was ever envisioned that they would leave both or either Union.
 
I seem to recall that all new states joining the EU have to sign up to the treaty as it now is. That includes the economic union and the Euro. Best of luck to them.
 
I vote the scots leave, and the sooner the better, the rest of us will be far better off financially and TV programming on New Years Eve will be considerably improved :)
 
ean_p said:
Mmmmm I seem to remember, though am probably very wrong, that it was actually the other way round, though its some time since I read on the subject and can't recall the specific examples and treaties quoted. A lot, if I recall correctly, depends on the original 'state' and the way in which it would / could break up. I don't think it has happened within the EU either way as of yet and the precedents quoted are elsewhere on the international stage. I think though it is thought that most international observers would see Scotland as a new entity as Scotland as an entity doesn't exist at the mo', and that the UK, though of reduced size would exist through the change and there by retain all its memberships etc! while Scotland would need to start from scratch.
The treaties etc are a matter of fact though open to lots of debate. Another aspect often quoted as working against Scotland and the EU specifically is the reluctance of member states to assist Scotland in fear that it would encourage some form of regional descent in their own backyards!
who knows but it'll be interesting times all-round if they go for it in 2014!
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Working from memory, some years ago there was a suggestion that Greenland would secede from Denmark. At that time the generally accepted view was that an independent Greenland would automatically become a member of the EU unless and until it chose otherwise. On this basis both Scotland and rumpUK would, at the point of separation, each become a member of the EU on the pre-existing terms. However, since the Greenland discussion, other EU treaties have been signed which may or may not change this presumption.

As B.O.B. says, many issues require investigation and clarification before a properly considered view can be taken. This is why timetabling the referendum in 2014 makes sense as it should hopefully give sufficient time for this process. The mischievous calls from unionists (who previously didn't want a referendum at all) to hold it earlier, in advance of knowing the facts, are increasingly seen for what they are.
 
DogWatch said:
I find it interesting that the SNP and the actors seem to be taking charge in telling us the conditions of their leaving the Union. They will remain in GB they will remain in the UK, they will use sterling, they will keep the monarchy, we will retain the union jack, we will buy their water etc etc etc

Oddly too I find, Westminster is remaining very quiet on this matter and the English, Welsh and NI are to also stay quiet or be accused of xenophobia or racism (see QT).

I believe the jockish are being lied to by Salmond and I worry why no one in the south seems to be telling it how it is, if you leave you actually leave! Surely the best you can hope for is an invitation to join the commonwealth, you can't leave the UK and remain in the UK, it makes no sense. Trade is going to cost more unless you move everything by ship, you will be paying duty to export here, here being your biggest market.

There is one silver lining though, the Caledonian Canal might finally be of some use for trade!
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Hey ho there we go again, there are no rules, if Scotland decides to break up the Union of Parliaments then there will have to be a negotiated settlement between Scotland and those countries still using Westminster and with the EU. To try and prejudge the result of negotiations that have not even started is both foolish and counterproductive. You must realise Scotland and England are tied in two ways, the Union of the Crowns which took place in 1603, and the Union of the Parliaments which took place in 1707. One union can be disolved without disolving the other. Just as an example Ireland has been independant for many years yet Irish citizens can get a British passport, and even service in the UK armed forces. All things are possible as yet, and I am pretty sure if it comes to pass then neither side will cut off it's nose to spite it's own face.

If you want to see separation keep on with your anti Scottish ranting, such stuff generates converts for the SNP in Scotland.
 
I am delighted when I see the Saltire, Welsh Dragon, Cornish, Devon or whatever illegal ensigns being worn.

It means that i can eliminate them from any prospective social intercourse and only have to take my chances with proper English to$$ers.

Nationalism, regionalism, countyism is all rather sad.

I wonder what our forbears would have thought.
 
gerry99 said:
I vote the scots leave, and the sooner the better, the rest of us will be far better off financially and TV programming on New Years Eve will be considerably improved :)
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Since the last time I looked Berkshire was not part of Scotland, I'm afraid you will have no vote in the referendum. You assert that you will be better off financially if Scotland becomes independent. That may be so, but is not in accordance with the current Treasury figures; you may wish to do some research. Finally, if you can't think of a better way to spend Hogmanay than watching the idiot box, well, what can I say?
 
chinita said:
I am delighted when I see the Saltire, Welsh Dragon, Cornish, Devon or whatever illegal ensigns being worn.

It means that i can eliminate them from any prospective social intercourse and only have to take my chances with proper English to$$ers.

Nationalism, regionalism, countyism is all rather sad.

I wonder what our forbears would have thought.
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They were all too busy pillaging the folk in the next town to worry about such stuff.
 
DaveS said:
Since the last time I looked Berkshire was not part of Scotland, I'm afraid you will have no vote in the referendum. You assert that you will be better off financially if Scotland becomes independent. That may be so, but is not in accordance with the current Treasury figures; you may wish to do some research. Finally, if you can't think of a better way to spend Hogmanay than watching the idiot box, well, what can I say?
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Its amazing how some people have no humour :)

Vote in a referendum! Why would i want to do that? Much better to just go for it and in any event its not up to the scots to decide to leave its up to the rest of us (the majority) to decide if we want scotland to leave or stay :)

Research? Why bother? Lets just get rid of Scotland out of the union. If we went for a referendum that would be dangerously close to democracy and that would never do.

What's Hogmanay? I was referring to TV programming rather than actually watching it - normally i'm out at a party :) :) :)
 
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