If Scotland leaves the Union, will I need a new Ensign?

Emjaytoo

Emjaytoo

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We are the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland (or something similar). If Scotland was to leave, or any other component part leave, would the remainder still be the United Kingdom?

The UK's flag is the Union Jack which includes the Cross of St Andrew. Would we have a new flag devoid of the cross? If so, will this in turn, result in a new Ensign?
 
As neither Wales or Northern Ireland are kingdoms the name would obviously have to change. On the other hand Scotland has several kingdoms- Fife, the Isles, etc. and would probably become the United Kingdoms of Scotland. It would save changing all the stationary!
 
On the basis that Egland always uses the UK National Anthem as it's own, uses the UK Parliament as it's own and also tends to use the Union Flag as the English flag there would appear to be no need to change the ensign for England if Scotland leaves the Union
 
Apparently not. Chap on TV other day explained that the Union Flag was designed before the Act of Union when James was King of England and Scotland when they were two independent countries. if the Scots do retain the existing Monarch as Head of state then the situation is then exactly the same as immediately preceding the Act of Union.
Therefore, no need to redesign the Union Flag.
 
Scotland, independent or not, does not own the rights to the Cross of St Andrew. IMHO The Union Flag would remain as it is even if Scotland left. It might not have the same meaning as now but, as one of the most recognised flags in the world, it would be silly to change it.

FWIW I'm sure we would retain the name United Kingdom too. We are a Kingdom and, even without Scotland, we would still be a united group of former independent states.
 
It wouldn't be "leaving" the Union - it would be dissolving it by repealing the 1707 Act. Whether the EC, UN, NATO, etc. would want either or both of the parts to remain as members without having to reapply is an interesting question.
 
The question asked about the ensign - not the flag. They are different things. If an independent Scotland decided also to be a Registration State, it would need its own ensign. However it would probably stay within the same framework as the British registry and use a variation of the Red ensign, as many other registries do, such as Australia and New Zealand (and many other countries of the commonwealth).
 
maxi77 said:
On the basis that Egland always uses the UK National Anthem as it's own, uses the UK Parliament as it's own and also tends to use the Union Flag as the English flag there would appear to be no need to change the ensign for England if Scotland leaves the Union
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Very true, the idea it's a union is a sham, we are conquerers. !!

CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
Do you actually think that Scotland will ever leave the UK? I think it is safe to keep your existing Ensign.
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I do

wot said:
Apparently not. Chap on TV other day explained that the Union Flag was designed before the Act of Union when James was King of England and Scotland when they were two independent countries. if the Scots do retain the existing Monarch as Head of state then the situation is then exactly the same as immediately preceding the Act of Union.
Therefore, no need to redesign the Union Flag.
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If they do then maybe but will they, I wouldn't as it costs too much.

little_roundtop said:
Scotland, independent or not, does not own the rights to the Cross of St Andrew. IMHO The Union Flag would remain as it is even if Scotland left. It might not have the same meaning as now but, as one of the most recognised flags in the world, it would be silly to change it.

Are you kidding, the scottish flag doen't belong to scotland :confused::confused: can you explain.

FWIW I'm sure we would retain the name United Kingdom too. We are a Kingdom and, even without Scotland, we would still be a united group of former independent states.
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No very united are we.
 
awol said:
As neither Wales or Northern Ireland are kingdoms the name would obviously have to change. On the other hand Scotland has several kingdoms- Fife, the Isles, etc. and would probably become the United Kingdoms of Scotland. It would save changing all the stationary!
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this may be what it seems like but is wrong in that the 'united' kingdoms are those of Great Britain and that of N Ireland. The union of England and Scotland formed Great Britain.... not the United Kingdom.
This might appear academic but it seems to suggest that the UK will still exist after Scotland leaves the union and as the 'state' then the UK will still be members of the EU etc.. Scotland as England don't exist legally as 'states' and so an independent Scotland would be seen(deemed?) as a new 'state' and as such would need to start from scratch so to speak! ie not have membership of the EU
or some such scenario!
 
awol said:
It wouldn't be "leaving" the Union - it would be dissolving it by repealing the 1707 Act. Whether the EC, UN, NATO, etc. would want either or both of the parts to remain as members without having to reapply is an interesting question.
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A very interesting question.

In one of the successor states (of the former UK) membership of the EU is very much a live issue: popular opinion in that country would probably prefer not to reapply for membership. One of the two major political parties is seriously split on the question. Indeed the EU establishment might be happy were that state not a member.

On the other hand in the other successor state membership of the EU is not an major issue. It is a subject never mentioned by either of the two major parties. Scotland would be welcomed into the EU like many other small European states.

Hopefully, Scotland like most other modern European democracies would just use her national flag, the Saltire, as her maritime ensign though traditionalists might like to use the Scottish red ensign.
 
There is talk at the moment as refering to it as the Union flag-problem is union suggests equality but there is no equality in the flag.
Once upon a time before the Germans took over and the Stuarts still ruled, in Scotland the diagonal cross of St Andrew was in the forground and the red cross of St.George in the backgrond-vice versa if you were in England-total equality.
It was Queenies lot-the Hanoverians who emblazoned the flag of St.George in the forground-along with the anthem about confounding your enemies and in a very early version subjugating the Scots and the Irish!.
 
little_roundtop said:
FWIW I'm sure we would retain the name United Kingdom too. We are a Kingdom and, even without Scotland, we would still be a united group of former independent states.
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Please explain. Who do you refer to as "we"? Do you mean Greece? Or are you English located in Greece? Or Mongolian? Who is/are "we"?
You surely don't refer to the United Kingdom of England do you? Don't be daft!
 
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