gjgm
Active member
But how many institutions are there to ring around?
If a Broker goes bust and takes the Client account monies with them - who loses out
- Thread starter ontheplane
- Start date
benjenbav
Well-known member
jfm
Well-known member
Safe, BJB. 
jonic
Well-known member
Well it could be anyone who lends money.
jonic
Well-known member
Safe, BJB.
I thought you were on a plane.
jfm
Well-known member
On le train to LGW matey. The Maybach is in for a service 6pm flight on BigFatGreekAirlines, as EME calls it. (Or BigPhatGreek).
6pm flight on BigFatGreekAirlines, as EME calls it. (Or BigPhatGreek).
jonic
Well-known member
On le train to LGW matey. The Maybach is in for a service
You're not Harry Redknapp are you? He drives big cars and speaks street as well as flying off to places in Europe.
SailorBill
New member
You're not Harry Redknapp are you? He drives big cars and speaks street as well as flying off to places in Europe.
Does JFM have a dog?
jonic
Well-known member
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gjgm
Active member
Well that really does surprise me.
So, thinking about past boats you have dealt with, you are saying that there is/was a significant number of marine martgage specialists,so many that it would be impossible to ring them all, and /or all sorts of financial institutions lent money where the boat was collateral against the loan?
Note, where the boat was collateral.. if it is a loan against the guy's house, and the boat is now sold, I dont see how the boat can be repossessed..maybe the proceeds can be.
Surely you imply then that it is all but impossible to know if there is a loan against the boat and you rely on the seller telling you. After all, even you as an honest broker cant find out.
jonic
Well-known member
Ok we must again stay clear of scaremongering.
Most Marine mortgages will be registered on part 1
Most will have been raised by the three or four major houses, so relatively easy to check with them. Slightly more difficult now as some have stopped lending and the departments have been closed.
But a small % could be loans set up by non- marine specialists that are not recorded.
This is where we fall back on possession of physical original title documents.
And additionally signed declarations and ID-ing of owners.
gjgm
Active member
Ok. But I would be surprised if non specialists are going to get involved in boat loans using the boat as collateral. Using a house maybe, but that is just a normal loan with no recourse to the boat.
jonic
Well-known member
Yes but the point here is, that it is possible for a charge to be on a boat and for it not to be recorded on part 1.
I had a boat recently that all seemed fine on. In fact it couldn't have been cleaner, but it was on the SSR and had photocopies for the VAT invoice and builders cert. The owner declared no outstanding finance and a mix up with the documents.
I had a nagging suspicion and contacted the finance houses.
It turned out to be on finance with one of the largest houses!
The finance was in the process of being cleared so the owner was not about to be fraudulent and a few weeks later I got the original papers and confirmation from the finance house that the debt was now clear.
But it shows how vigilant you have to be, and how the unknowing could be easily duped.
boat-registration.org
New member
Unfortunately for the seller legally they will not have much standing, if you have a signed bill of sale showing they have transferred title of ownership to you. However if you don't have a signed document showing title then you will struggle to prove ownership if the pervious owner has all the documentation. Basically you need to cover yourself by insuring you gather all the boat documents, have a signed bill of sale and change ownership on any other registry documents, insurance documents will also help with this but the seller enters into a broker contract, they are the one at risk if you have the right documents.
You can always ask the owner to register with us, it is free and will not cost anything and then covers you and the seller. www.lesiurevesselcertification.co.uk
You can always ask the owner to register with us, it is free and will not cost anything and then covers you and the seller. www.lesiurevesselcertification.co.uk
Nick_H
Active member
There was some discussion on a previous thread on this subject, that if a mortgage company didn't bother to register it's interest on the part 1, they may not be able to repossess a boat from an innocent third party who had bought it in good faith.
The speculation was that a judge would consider the mortgage co. negligent, or at least downright lazy, when there is a simple, workable system they could have used to let would be buyers know that the charge was in place. I don't know if this is correct, but it sounds very sensible to me that a court would take that view.
jonic
Well-known member
I have heard this too, and that if you had contacted the finance houses and had no reply it would be a similar response. However I do not know if it has been tested.
Again we must realise that events we are discussing here are relatively rare and the vast majority of transactions probably 99% or more are completely unaffected.
SailorBill
New member
It's good to see that you, as a broker, acknowledge some transactions are affected.
jonic
Well-known member
In seven years I have never had a problem with any that have gone to market, but I have certainly refused to take on a few.
SailorBill
New member
You're obviously one of the better brokers. But the boats you refused would have been taken on by other brokers.
jonic
Well-known member
Who knows, quite possibly.
Then again I am a long time forumite, who was not a broker but went off sailing round the world and then became a broker so perhaps I have a different perspective. But there are some highly professional and experienced brokers out there who operate with complete integrity and I have modelled my business on theirs. Having said that we are all sail boat brokers and niche brokers at that. Me with sail crusiers and bluewater yachts and they with classics or high end yachts.
I notice these ding dongs often happen in the MOB forum, or refer to mass market brokers. Is that a different brokerage world to the one I know?
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't know. Perception is a funny, often distorted thing.