FullCircle
Well-Known Member
Dunno what you mean about side decks?
Plenty of room to walk up forward.
Plenty of room to walk up forward.
Ideas for boats which fit my ideal spec!
- Thread starter Zagato
- Start date
PhillM
Well-Known Member
You are welcome to come down and see what I did to Paean. She was not a wreck when I got her but did need quite bit of work. I have kept records of tools, techniques, materials and costs - so I should be able to give you a fair picture of the demands. I should add that am NO expert, just a bloke who started from scratch and gave it a go. I am in Swanwick, pm me, I tend to be around Saturdays although at the moment that's more afternoons that mornings.
Zagato
Well-Known Member
Thanks Phill.
Fullcircle, I mean the side decks on small boats can creat an awkward internal shape preventing you from sitting up comfortably. Looking at the internal shots of the Jouet it appears the window line comes too far forward of the seat backs so you cannot lean back properly. I have the same problem in the Drifter and looking at the internals of other boats it's a common problem. You could stack cushions behind you but then your sitting on the edge of the seat base. Happy for you to tell me this isn't so as it's the best of the bunch so far for budget. looks, etc
I'm researching Dehlar,Medina, Sun 2000, Jeanneau tonic, Capri 22 etc and even the Drascombe Coaster is appealing as I'm not far from the Kingston upon Thames and we could have a go on the river for a day, they only weigh 550 KG and are so simple, easy to launch, rig. Long weekends to the Broads, East Coast, Lakes, East Coast, Falmouth, even Scotland for a week sounds really appealing. Rallies are already organised so you get local knowledge also and a BBQ and beer.
Fullcircle, I mean the side decks on small boats can creat an awkward internal shape preventing you from sitting up comfortably. Looking at the internal shots of the Jouet it appears the window line comes too far forward of the seat backs so you cannot lean back properly. I have the same problem in the Drifter and looking at the internals of other boats it's a common problem. You could stack cushions behind you but then your sitting on the edge of the seat base. Happy for you to tell me this isn't so as it's the best of the bunch so far for budget. looks, etc
I'm researching Dehlar,Medina, Sun 2000, Jeanneau tonic, Capri 22 etc and even the Drascombe Coaster is appealing as I'm not far from the Kingston upon Thames and we could have a go on the river for a day, they only weigh 550 KG and are so simple, easy to launch, rig. Long weekends to the Broads, East Coast, Lakes, East Coast, Falmouth, even Scotland for a week sounds really appealing. Rallies are already organised so you get local knowledge also and a BBQ and beer.
Seajet
...
The Romilly is indeed pretty, dunno how much space inside there is though ?
Still no guardrails and I suspect its' limitations would make it unlikely to survive the Zagato 6 month barrier !
How about a Cornish Yawl ( don't know what they go for ) or for that matter if seeking real boat porn a Salcombe Yawl ?!
Still no guardrails and I suspect its' limitations would make it unlikely to survive the Zagato 6 month barrier !
How about a Cornish Yawl ( don't know what they go for ) or for that matter if seeking real boat porn a Salcombe Yawl ?!
prv
Well-Known Member
But that's almost exactly what he's just sold!
I don't know what he didn't like about his Crabber 24, but it will almost certainly apply to the Yawl as - apart from the rig - the boats are nearly identical.
As for prices, I have some data from around 2010 indicating that they were selling for comfortably over £20k, but I think that would be optimistic (from a seller's point of view) now. Probably could find one eventually for 15 but it may need work.
Pete
Seajet
...
I was alongside a Crabber 24 at Bembridge in 2012 and thought it massive for a 24', I thought the Cornish Yawl a lot more slender in every way ?
It would be a fun rig to play with, quite useful too.
Have the brochure but don't recall seeing one in the flesh.
It would be a fun rig to play with, quite useful too.
Have the brochure but don't recall seeing one in the flesh.
PhillM
Well-Known Member
There is nearly 6 foot headroom in the Cheverton Mk2 and you can sit right back all the way along the main cabin. Not bad for a 25 footer. No small side decks and no guard rail to get in the way
mrming
Well-Known Member
I haven't recommended my own boat thus far as it seems like you want something with more of a trad feel, but if the Jouet 680 is a contender then the First 235 is also worth a look.
Mine is the swing keel version which draws 2.5 feet with the keel and rudder up. Good ones are usually asking £14k. They don't come up all that often as people tend to hold onto them.
The accommodations are excellent for a boat this size with a proper galley and a separate head which cunningly converts to a nav station. There's lots of info and pics here: http://www.beneteau235.com
The 23.5 includes the rudder and the boat is actually 21.5ft. You would need to reef a lot earlier than than Jouet as it's a bit of a pocket rocket, but once you do, it's a pussycat and very easy to short hand. We race ours with four, but cruise coastally with two and adjust the sailplan accordingly.
Mine is the swing keel version which draws 2.5 feet with the keel and rudder up. Good ones are usually asking £14k. They don't come up all that often as people tend to hold onto them.
The accommodations are excellent for a boat this size with a proper galley and a separate head which cunningly converts to a nav station. There's lots of info and pics here: http://www.beneteau235.com
The 23.5 includes the rudder and the boat is actually 21.5ft. You would need to reef a lot earlier than than Jouet as it's a bit of a pocket rocket, but once you do, it's a pussycat and very easy to short hand. We race ours with four, but cruise coastally with two and adjust the sailplan accordingly.
Ru88ell
Well-Known Member
The Crabber 24 hull is out of the same mould as the yawl. The only difference being that the keel was changed. My yawl was the prototype for the deeper, heavier keel on the 24.
Price wise, there's one currently for sale at £17.5k, others up to £23.5k, although that's probably optimistic considering what it needs doing to it. Bloody good VFM when you compare to the 22 or 24, which seem to kick in at around £30k +.
Plenty of yawl stuff on my blog.
prv
Well-Known Member
Nope - they're very very similar. Not sure I agree with Russell that the mould was the same one - the keel shape on the Crabber is different and since the ballast is punchings and resin that would have required a different shaped mould. However, what Crabbers are known for doing is making a plug and mould to duplicate a shape from an existing design and then hacking it about with wood and filler to make a modified version based on the original. The PBO article on the Crabber 26 showed them doing this with the cockpit mould from something else. This may well have been what they did to produce the 24 from the Yawl, so apart from the keel the hull shape would be identical. The deck moulding again is very similar, but not quite the same as without the mizzen they were able to delete the afterdeck and carry some other bits a little further aft with the extra space.
Is she big for a 24 footer? I haven't been on many others to compare. I think she feels quite big on deck, but smaller below (because of that afterdeck again, and the moderate counter stern). Colin's Leisure 23 felt bigger inside than Kindred Spirit did. Although the Yawl accommodation is very well worked out, so although it's compact you don't feel at all cramped. Basically they designed for the space available rather than simply miniaturising the conventional yacht layout. As far as the rig is concerned, with a substantial bowsprit and an overhanging mizzen boom (we had a bumkin as well, but that was non-standard) you obviously have a vastly increased length compared to most 24-footers. I never measured, but I've heard 33 feet quoted as the length over spars.
Absolutely! Ariam's fully-battened conventional bermudan rig feels rather constricting by comparison. Of course, it makes up for that in upwind performance when we're going places, but there's no way I'd want to attempt some of the close-quarter manoeuvres I felt quite comfortable doing in Kindred Spirit.
Pete
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
Yes it was a bit like that, but we made some back cushions while we were doing the upholstery. Never found it a problem, probably because we are both short arses.
As you can see, it was a real mess when I bought it.
As you can see, it was a real mess when I bought it.
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Ru88ell
Well-Known Member
That's what I meant to say, but didn't in such a prv way.
Glisferox
Active Member
A cabin version of the Memory 19.
Plenty around the Solent, who seem to race and play together.
About your price range.
Plenty around the Solent, who seem to race and play together.
About your price range.
PhillM
Well-Known Member
Again not sure if its up your street, and I have mentioned this boat before but there is a really nice Golant Gaffer complete with trailer in Decons, for about £20K. Not been inside but she does have nice lines and a traditional feel. From the outside and sales pictures, I don't think there is much to do except a bit of painting and varnishing each year.
EDIT: Should say, no connection, etc.
EDIT: Should say, no connection, etc.
Zagato
Well-Known Member
Yes I don't want/need something so big. The Crabber was a bit of short term fun and to make money on, very little I disliked about it but I knew when I bought it I would only have it for 1 or 2 seasons. I saw it yesterday standing on the hard and thought I am so glad I sold it and all the hassles/costs that went with it. I don't want the hassle of inboards, cutless bearings, seacocks etc. Going down to 21-22' means I get a smaller/lighter boat with an outboard and simplicity (an outboard will be fine for my short hops). If I can trail even better to get to different locations as sailing to them is a no no single handed blighted as I am with seasicknes. What I really want to do is play around creeks, spend the night at anchor largely in my own peaceful world and enjoy a bit of exploring. Longer passages even Chi to Cowes are just too risky for me single handed, in fact I have tried 3 times to do it and had to bail out at Gosport each time. It's just endurance for me, no fun especially when doped up on Stugeron so a beautiful little boat with a shallow draft I can trail or stick on a mud mooring would be ideal.
Thanks for that FullCircle, sitting up does look doable from those pictures, I'm only your average 6' and shrinking... so it puts the Jouet back into contention.
Thanks for the other suggestions, will keep researching...
Zagato
Well-Known Member
The old Drascombe Coaster is top of the list for versatility, ease of use and incredibly cheap to use. At only 550KG and with a 12" draft it can be launched in so many places, you can sit up in it, row it, moor over night on the mud banks (no 5 deep rafting in Bembridge!) and it's proved to be seaworthy with regular rallies arond the IofW and to Poole etc in nasty conditions.
This or a Shrimper at the moment... Loads of both in Chi harbour as they are suited so well to it but it also means they are pricey for what they are 7K upwards.
Moving out on the flood tide after a night dried out BBQ etc
I'm all ears if anyone comes up with a 22' lifting keel classic looking boat I can actually sit up in. If it has a mizzen all the better, I hate reefing in a blow, sends me queezy in seconds...
Long weekend on the Broads
Quirky looks. I would prefer what is behind but I bet it doesn't have a lifting keel unless it's all wood.
This or a Shrimper at the moment... Loads of both in Chi harbour as they are suited so well to it but it also means they are pricey for what they are 7K upwards.
Moving out on the flood tide after a night dried out BBQ etc
I'm all ears if anyone comes up with a 22' lifting keel classic looking boat I can actually sit up in. If it has a mizzen all the better, I hate reefing in a blow, sends me queezy in seconds...
Long weekend on the Broads
Quirky looks. I would prefer what is behind but I bet it doesn't have a lifting keel unless it's all wood.
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Zagato
Well-Known Member
WOW 15K bang on budget, a 36' 1889 Maldon Oyster Smack where the wood hull has been covered in GRP. Didn't know you could do that. It's a shallow draft but I don't think it would sink into Chi harbour mud well enough to stay upright.
GRRRR why hasn't somebody designed something like this with a lifting keel
Probably because it wouldn't sail but who cares look at it, down below must be superb...
The East Coast is sounding tempting at the moment, cheap and it brings in a whole new variety of boats like this with it's soft mud. It's also the same distance away from me as Chi Harbour, just have to negotiate the M25 at the right time!
GRRRR why hasn't somebody designed something like this with a lifting keel
Probably because it wouldn't sail but who cares look at it, down below must be superb...
The East Coast is sounding tempting at the moment, cheap and it brings in a whole new variety of boats like this with it's soft mud. It's also the same distance away from me as Chi Harbour, just have to negotiate the M25 at the right time!
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Yes it was a bit like that, but we made some back cushions while we were doing the upholstery. Never found it a problem, probably because we are both short arses.
As you can see, it was a real mess when I bought it.
You could put a caption on that photo
something like:-
"Oh good grief--What has that d..k got me into now"
Or
" Oh hell - put the b..y thing down & let's go home, I have been here hours already & I am BORED stiff"
Or
" How do we pay the rent now?"
Or
"one finger, 2 fingers, 3 fingers, 4 fingers --Yes they are all there"
Or
" I suppose I could cut my throat with the bread knife - if we had one"
Or
" You don't really want that last bit of fruit cake- do you?"
Any other suggestions???
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Rum Run
Well-Known Member
Going over the cabin top is ok, it's getting back into the cockpit afterwards that causes me to hesitate. I have seen little step plates put into the corners which would help.
cheers
Rum Run
(A22 owner and part time steeplechaser)
cheers
Rum Run
(A22 owner and part time steeplechaser)
prv
Well-Known Member
You can, there was a bit of a fashion for it in the 60s and 70s, but then most of the boats rotted from the inside out as the wood could no longer breathe. It's not usually reckoned a very smart thing to do nowadays. If that boat is significantly cheaper than its un-sheathed peers (I have no idea of the going rate for Victorian oyster smacks!) then it's probably because of the sheathing.
Pete