Ideas for boats which fit my ideal spec!

Zagato,

yes the Rob Roy is lovely, ( for someone else to own ! ) I've seen them before somewhere.

There used to be a similar boat at my club, ' Hunters' Moon ' was a 20' wooden yawl, for a long time the largest boat there.

Not being critical, genuine questions;

What would you use to tow it ? ( knowing you, a Veyron ! :) )

How would you maintain the keel ? I dish out the plans for A22 trestles, they could probably be adapted.

Still no guardrails...
 
There was a very similar production boat called the Nimble 24:

872356Nimble24p1.GIF
 
Thats the drawback Seajet, I think the Rob Roy would have to go on a mooring and I now really want to go have the option of trailer sailing to new areas.

Thanks for the Nimble 24 pic, looks lovely... Same designer (Ted Brewer) as the Rob Roy. Real shame they are all in the US

The Shrimper and Cape Cutter are second on the list but I fancy something different.

Swallow Boats come top of my list as a manufacturer. I've always really liked the Bayraider Expedition, better rudder arrangement than the Drascombe Coaster, and it doesn't need a braked trailer. The water ballast system is tried and tested and the quality of the boats is VERY good. Matt is a good guy, he has a very good product and I know at least one other manufacturer that has tried to buy him out!

The problem is they are still too expensive. You wouldn't get one under 15K second hand.

I like the Bayraider 20 but for the same reasons, it's out of my budget and I believe it's still only available in wood. My internet security won't let me on the Swallow boats site as it says it's dodgy but it was alright a couple of days ago!
 
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Swallow Boats come top of my list as a manufacturer. I've always really liked the Bayraider Expedition, better rudder arrangement than the Drascombe Coaster, and it doesn't need a braked trailer. The water ballast system is tried and tested and the quality of the boats is VERY good. Matt is a good guy, he has a very good product and I know at least one other manufacturer that has tried to buy him out!
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The expedition version is a bit new for many used boats to be around, I decided to do without the cabin and the sprayhood is big enough to shelter from the odd shower etc. The ease of trailing, rigging and launching is amazing compared to other boats of the type.
 
Zagato,

each to their own, but water ballast usually means ineffective with no real righting moment.

As for ' not needing a braked trailer ', well maybe not legally - and yes it's something else to get knobbled when immersing the thing - but having seen a trailer bent into an L shape with the boat stuffed into the cars' back window I think I'd go for the brakes !

I haven't seen a ' Memory ' with a cabin but it sounds a lovely idea.

View attachment 38229
 
The water ballast on the swallow boats means that they can be launched without getting the trailer wet, just reverse until the tyres are just in the water. The are some videos of the stability testing and the results are impressive.
 
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I think you'll find a bit more thought has gone into those than just a central tank at waterline level which fills up when one dunks the thing off a trailer, also requires more effort and brains to operate ! :)
 
Seajet said:
I think you'll find a bit more thought has gone into those than just a central tank at waterline level which fills up when one dunks the thing off a trailer, also requires more effort and brains to operate ! :)
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I just added the video above - have a look and see what you think - looks good to me. Quickly pops up from a 90 degree knock down. It's pretty slow to come up from fully inverted but with all the built in buoyancy it's not going to sink. I can't imagine my own boat (or indeed an Anderson 22) would do too well fully inverted either!
 
Like the video, and particularly the fact that the makers went to the trouble, she looks a really fun inshore boat.

However, a few points;

The capsize recovery requires efforts from the crew just like a dinghy, not spiffing if offshore & somewhere like Portland Race...

A hollow mast ( how about some foam ? ) is no great attribute, what do they expect, solid alloy ?!

It would be interesting to see the same test with the boat fullly loaded, ie engine, fuel tank ( and where does that end up ?! ) and typical junk.

I like the idea of the asymmetric tank, but isn't that locking the gate after the horse has bolted ?

Really effective water ballast has to bo on the windward side, with all the hassle that entails transferring it when tacking.

As you mention the Anderson 22, well that has 950 lbs of ballast held out 4'6" below the hull, and doesn't require people hanging on it for recovery.

The problems with a full inversion might be water entering the cabin through the main hatch and ventilators etc, and if really upside down the keel might slam back in - which is why I carry a stainless rod to keep the keel extended, but have never fitted it yet; I think righting would be very quick, but prefer not to try it on my own boat; nearly got to do this for the RCD when planning on making new A22's, would have been interesting.

Bob Salmon sailed ' Anderson Affair ' most of the way across the Atlantic with the keel raised ( so there's still the 900lb ballast bulb just under the hull ) but he's a braver man than me, though hurricane force squalls on the mooring only tilt her about 30 degrees, at least when I've been onboard.

The boat in the video looks great fun and I hope they sell loads, but not my idea of an offshore cruiser.
 
I think you'll find a bit more thought has gone into those than just a central tank at waterline level which fills up when one dunks the thing off a trailer, also requires more effort and brains to operate
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There no complications with the ballast, you can sail with the tank empty in light winds or if you fancy a more lively sail. Otherwise you can fill it by opening a bung under the cockpit floor. You can then drain the tank via a pair of self bailers or open the bung and self bailers and it empties as you winch the boat onto the trailer. It means that for towing it weighs 300KG less than it otherwise would.

Raising the mast is a one handed job and I can be sailing within 30mins over arriving at the waterside.

The boat in the video looks great fun and I hope they sell loads, but not my idea of an offshore cruiser
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I think your missing the point, its not meant to an offshore cruiser.
 
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Seajet said:
The capsize recovery requires efforts from the crew just like a dinghy, not spiffing if offshore & somewhere like Portland Race...
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If your own boat inverted in flat water it might also require a bit of hanging from the keel to get it moving initially. From then on it would start moving a lot quicker of course.

Seajet said:
A hollow mast ( how about some foam ? ) is no great attribute, what do they expect, solid alloy ?!
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A dubious claim I agree - unless it is sealed?

Seajet said:
I like the idea of the asymmetric tank, but isn't that locking the gate after the horse has bolted ?
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It does seem very hard to invert the boat so it seems a bit overkill.

Seajet said:
As you mention the Anderson 22, well that has 950 lbs of ballast held out 4'6" below the hull, and doesn't require people hanging on it for recovery.

The problems with a full inversion might be water entering the cabin through the main hatch and ventilators etc, and if really upside down the keel might slam back in - which is why I carry a stainless rod to keep the keel extended, but have never fitted it yet; I think righting would be very quick, but prefer not to try it on my own boat; nearly got to do this for the RCD when planning on making new A22's, would have been interesting.
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Some years ago I was racing in heavy weather behind a quarter tonner which got knocked down in a particularly vicious broach. There were big waves that day and they immediately began sloshing in the open companionway while the boat lay on her side. The more the water went in, the less likely she was to self right. We had less than 3 minutes to get the crew clear before the boat sank to the bottom. One crew member was trapped inside and the Skipper only just got her out in time. It was very scary to see how quickly the situation deteriorated from a simple broach to a potentially fatal sinking.
 
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IJL said:
How about a Cape Cutter 19, they make good use of the space and look the part ...
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Yeah, I'd rather have a Cape Cutter. I especially like that the mast is easy to lower, which might allow me to keep the boat at my house, which is just upstream of a bridge with a 12' clearance.

In the meantime, I saw a C&C 24 on the Norfolk (Virginia) Craig's List for $2000. I might have to reconsider my thoughts about the boat's appearance.
 
As I say I would really prefer not to find out, but I don't think an A22 would be inverted for long; so long as it didn't fill up as mentioned, the ballast bulb should come into effect as soon as the slightest wave put her off the 180 degrees ?

Also the buoyancy of the coachroof should help, on the same priciple as the ' block of flats ' coachroofs on lifeboats like the Arun - it's quite common to sail the A22 with the windows almost completely underwater, I once took a non-sailor chum for a trip, in the morning we set off late in a hurry and didn't open the curtains; as we beated into a F5 I realised this then asked Ian to open the curtains, he was met with a fish's eye underwater view - the first word he yelled began with ' F ' and the second word was ' Me ! '

I've always thought the E-Boat website is admirably honest in saying these wide usually flush decked boats can be stable if inverted, then flood and sink if pushed too hard - as was found with the OOD34 in the 1979 Fastnet.

For trundling around Ascension I'd want a pretty serious boat, hopefully with a cabin for shelter too as I get the impression it can be rather cold ?
 
IJL said:
I think your missing the point, its not meant to an offshore cruiser.
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As usual lots of posters not looking at the ops spec which seems to have developed a little from his original post.

Been keeping quiet on this thread as I am sure the op has all ready mentioned his problem with making coastal passages.

It seemed to me that the Op wants a daysailer that might or might not have a lid, can be easily trailed by- passing any nasty bits like Portland.

Once he has made his mind up that he wants to trail rather than sail around the lumpy bits he will exclude all of the transatlantic crossing capability of a trailable yacht and settle for a trailer sailer that can be winched on and off a trailer without getting the wheel bearings wet.

The Swallow boats had been ruled out by himself in his first post but I am sure they meet his specification the closest except for price!

The OP has confirmed his preference for a more traditional design. There remain two other possibilities that without close scrutiny of every post I dont think have been mentioned that I would propose

Hawke 20http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boats.phtml?id=2103
and possibly mentioned the Hunter 20/ Red Fox

yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boats.phtml?view=1&layout=1&id=1943&fx=IQD&minv=Minimum&maxv=Maximum&minl=0&maxl=0&ymin=&ymax=&sort=0&limit=10&type=

Both of which are a little more modern in design but will perform all of his requirements and are possibly available within his budget.

I would also recommend that whatever the op eventually settles for that its trailer is brand new or has never been immersed in salt water otherwise he will spend more time on trailer maintenance than sailing..
 
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