Ideas for a new cruising boat please - which won't need yard storage...

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Trevelyan

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Hello all,

I currently have a Seal 22, which lives on a private mooring (dries on springs, sandy bottom) near Falmouth and lives up the creek on legs in winter - cheap boating!

SWMBO would like something more comfortable and I would like to increase the cruising range for coastal trips (e.g. Scilly Isles), ideally something that could accommodate two couples staying aboard comfortably.

Deep water moorings around here are reasonably ok to come by, but yard storage charges are *horrendous*.

Any suggestions for boats to look at please that I don't need to pay a fortune to store. I'm guessing what I'm looking at is too big to trailer (have space to park at home), so I'm looking at bilge keelers, lift keelers, long keelers that could live up-the-creek in winter.

Myself I'd probably like something with sailing performance (Seal 26, Parker something) and SWMBO would probably like something bigger (all kinds of variety of bilge keelers spring to mind). Budget-wise ideally less than £20k, but up to £30k would be okay (if it isn't going to generate big bills!)

Cheers for your ideas,

Trev
 
Similar around here in some ways. Some of us find the most economical compromise is to go into a marina for a few months in the winter, or find a mooring that's insurable 12 months of the year.
With a bigger boat, you probably still need to haul out and be ashore for a month or so most years?
Space for two couples is a funny old thing. Six blokes can drink and belch and fart on a 30ft boat for a week, two couples anything under 45ft starts to feel crowded after 4 days, particularly if it's alleged to be a holiday?

I used to have an Impala 28, trailering that was a bit scary, but I was young and naive at the time. Still wouldn't want to tow anything bigger. But maybe there are towable boats which would extend your cruisng horizons?

I'm moving towards thinking about boat costs in total, ie. I can find '£x' for the ten yeas I expect to own a cruising boat. That has to be divided between buying it, maintaining it and actually sailing it. Maybe pay less to buy it and allow more for wintering it?
 
From my point of view, to have room for two couples to spend a night or three on board I would want a boat at least mid to low thirty foot range.

Not very familiar with the models but seems like a bilge keeler would be the best option to keep the costs down. Westerly makes several as I recall and I hear are very nice boats, one you could take as far as you're inclined to go.
 
Last time we went to Scilly we slept 4 on the seal 22 - that was pretty tight.... so a thirty footer would be palatial...!
 
Trevelyan said:
Hello all,

I currently have a Seal 22, which lives on a private mooring (dries on springs, sandy bottom) near Falmouth and lives up the creek on legs in winter - cheap boating!

SWMBO would like something more comfortable and I would like to increase the cruising range for coastal trips (e.g. Scilly Isles), ideally something that could accommodate two couples staying aboard comfortably.

Deep water moorings around here are reasonably ok to come by, but yard storage charges are *horrendous*.

Any suggestions for boats to look at please that I don't need to pay a fortune to store. I'm guessing what I'm looking at is too big to trailer (have space to park at home), so I'm looking at bilge keelers, lift keelers, long keelers that could live up-the-creek in winter.

Myself I'd probably like something with sailing performance (Seal 26, Parker something) and SWMBO would probably like something bigger (all kinds of variety of bilge keelers spring to mind). Budget-wise ideally less than £20k, but up to £30k would be okay (if it isn't going to generate big bills!)

Cheers for your ideas,

Trev
Click to expand...

Well I think you will get a Parker 275 for around 20k now. Apart from there don't ever seem to be any on sale. There was a Parker 27 on sale on the PSSA but it seems to have gone.

Plenty of decent bilge keelers for less money. If you want to go bigger my research when I was buying said Fulmar 32 bilge is one of the best bilge keelers. http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...Kingdom?refSource=browse listing#.Wo9EtnOnzqA

Hunter Ranger 265? Hunter Channel 31? Moody 31 bilge?

Plenty of choice! I think its finding one with a newish engine that doesn't smell too bad that is the key??!!
 
Ps. I have a trailer for my Parker 275. Its right at the limit of what you can trail. Need a Land rover / range rover. But if you have space storing it at home is eminently possible. I picked it up when I bought it from the guys drive.
 
Ah so many questions.... Do you get it craned onto the trailer or do you float it on? Can the mast be dropped by hand or does it need a crane? Why did you go for the Parker?

I like the idea of the sailing performance (and sticking with the seal family), but not sure accommodation space-wise, from the photos I've seen the quarterberth berth and v-berth look quite small?
 
Trevelyan said:
Ah so many questions.... Do you get it craned onto the trailer or do you float it on? Can the mast be dropped by hand or does it need a crane? Why did you go for the Parker?

I like the idea of the sailing performance (and sticking with the seal family), but not sure accommodation space-wise, from the photos I've seen the quarterberth berth and v-berth look quite small?
Click to expand...

I went for the Parker as I race it on the Forth which is a mud ditch and suits bilge / lifting keelers if you want to go anywhere. So was the best dual purpose boat. There are no bilge keelers in our racing fleet.

I think if you want space a Fulmar or something would be a lot bigger! The v berth in the parker is a reasonable size. The quarter berth is pretty low on one side! Both excellent for one full size bloke! I think you would have to try one out to be sure. Depends how often you will have four people on board.

I have only had it craned on and off the trailer. I think its possible to float it on but you would need a winch i think on your Land Rover!

The mast is easy to drop and raise with an a frame. Its quite heavy moving it when it is horizontal though. With 2 people it feels pretty heavy! So it is totally stable lowering and raising it while it is attached to the tabernacle. Then you unbolt it to move it and it feels a bit hairy!

Great boat. Lifting keel is more maintenance than bilge.
 
There are plenty of boats you could choose from in your size and budget. I sail a Westerly Fulmar (fin) and can vouch it is a beautifully well balanced and fast stable cruiser and the bilge keel version would be an excellent choice in your budget, You could also consider the following Westerlys: the Discus, Konsort, Merlin, and Griffon. Moody have several similar sized bilge keel boats like the 27, 29 and 31. I would search for boats up to about 33ft, as most will fall in your budget. The bigger the boat will generally mean a more comfortable ride and faster boat speed with the bonus of more internal volume.

Your main decision should be overall condition, like new or recent sails, engine, standing and running, electronics, etc. You might prefer having an aft cabin, as this would give you separate cabins for 2 couples. This may be biased toward locally available yachts for easy of delivery to your home port. There are so many yachts on the market in your budget, so you will need to look at plenty of yachts to see what appeals and then search for the best example available. The Yachtsnet archive is a source for some good information and photographs, plus they are local to you. This boat might suit from their current listings.
https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/c46516/c46516.htm
 
There's lots of talk about trailers, but it sounds like the op is actually going to put his boat in a mud berth or on legs for the winter? In which case all he needs is shallow draft.
I don't often get to recommend my own boat, but in this case I'll give it a go- Deb 33, S&S design so sails very well, lifting keel gives variable draft 4-8ft. I've fitted mine with legs from the yacht legs company, so I can easily dry her out for free at the bottom of my garden. Only one proper double berth though.
 
I used to trail a Trapper 300, 26' but 1.5m. draught fin keel, we moved it inland to race in the winter but the trailer was only immersed at the fresh water destination. Journey was only about 40 miles but I found moving it by road a really scary experience and I would not contemplate it now. I agree with the suggestion that with the summer and winter berths available to you all you need is to decide which shallow draft boat you like best and you can find nice spot somewhere when you need to antifoul. If you decide you do not need to trail it then your choice is much wider, go as big as you can afford as long as it is a boat that really takes your fancy.
There seem to be a lot of drying harbours and shallow draft boats in Wales perhaps worth looking for something there?
 
Roblpm I'd be interested to know how you think the parker would cope in an 'up the creek' berth with a hard "earthy" bottom (floating only on a spring tide) - does it sit entirely on its belly (the seal 22 has a stub of the keel which sticks out) and does it have option to fit legs to stop it from falling over? Or should I not even be contemplating it and trailer it home instead?

I suspect Kelpie is right in that I probably don't want to be trailering (but for the concern about lift keels that sit on their belly, as above) and as Quandary says there are winter options for the creek, winter marina fees or finding a mooring that is insurable 12 months. I had wondered about 'more long keel' fin keelers like Kelpie suggests (thinking these would offer better sailing performance than a bilge keeler). I wouldn't be able to use my private summer mooring (but that's not a showstopper). I wonder if it would cause a heart attack every time the wind blows - by comparison the seal 22 when on legs doesn't have far to fall over! Kelpie how stable is the leg arrangement/how sheltered is your wintering spot?

Once upon a time I had a Hunter Horizon 26, whilst it had very good accommodation for the size the sailing performance was disappointing. Westerly's of a bilge keel variety seem to be 'good bang for the buck' and no doubt have solid construction that would take some bottom bouncing, but I wonder if they will have the sailing performance I'm looking for.

I'm finding this very helpful to guide the Googling, thanks all... keep the ideas coming!
 
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Trevelyan said:
Roblpm I'd be interested to know how you think the parker would cope in an 'up the creek' berth with a hard "earthy" bottom (floating only on a spring tide) - does it sit entirely on its belly (the seal 22 has a stub of the keel which sticks out) and does it have option to fit legs to stop it from falling over? Or should I not even be contemplating it and trailer it home instead?

I suspect Kelpie is right in that I probably don't want to be trailering (but for the concern about lift keels that sit on their belly, as above) and as Quandary says there are winter options for the creek, winter marina fees or finding a mooring that is insurable 12 months. I had wondered about 'more long keel' fin keelers like Kelpie suggests (thinking these would offer better sailing performance than a bilge keeler). I wouldn't be able to use my private summer mooring (but that's not a showstopper). I wonder if it would cause a heart attack every time the wind blows - by comparison the seal 22 when on legs doesn't have far to fall over! Kelpie how stable is the leg arrangement/how sheltered is your wintering spot?

Once upon a time I had a Hunter Horizon 26, whilst it had very good accommodation for the size the sailing performance was disappointing. Westerly's of a bilge keel variety seem to be 'good bang for the buck' and no doubt have solid construction that would take some bottom bouncing, but I wonder if they will have the sailing performance I'm looking for.

I'm finding this very helpful to guide the Googling, thanks all... keep the ideas coming!
Click to expand...

The Parker 275 sits entirely on its belly. The keel is entirely inside the boat when pulled up. Some people worry that mud will go up the keel box and jam the keel which I have no experience of. I have only dried out on sand for picnics! Doesn't need legs. It just sits on its belly. I don't know if it would be good drying out twice a day. I suppose if it is calm it would be fine but there is nothing protecting the hull. Then again people sometimes say that twin keels aren't really designed for drying twice a day. So I would seek some help from people who have lift keel boats on drying moorings.

As I was intending to race a bit when I was buying I looked at this list http://www.byronsoftware.org/boats/bycn1000.htm

Its not entirely accurate as the Parker 275 number is a bit optimistic! But the best performing twin keel seems to be the Fulmar. I have only heard good things about them. The Parker 275 is a pretty light boat so if you are planning to smash to windward for hours in a F8 I would rather be in a Fulmar! For club racing and pottering about the Parker is great.
 
Actually i see your Seal already lives on a drying mooring so if its ok for that I suppose it will be the same for a Parker 275. I would think accommodation and heavy weather performance will be the deciders!
 
Summer mooring spot is entirely flat fine sand - ideal for the Parker. It dries 0.4m and a small spring here is 1m (big spring 0.2-0.4m), so it wouldn't be going aground that often.

The winter spot is right at the top of a creek that only gets wet on springs, hard earthy bottom with a scattering of small stones. The Seal only floats on big springs (but draws 2 feet) and so I suspect the Parker would float more. Also the worst-case wind direction is beam on. Perhaps I could strap some kind of material under the hull to protect it? That said if I could find one with a trailer (must be hen's teeth) then taking it home would be amazing...

I suspect you're right, I'd like the sailing performance of the Parker and SWMBO would like the comfort of the Fulmar or similar - suggestions please!
 
Trevelyan said:
Summer mooring spot is entirely flat fine sand - ideal for the Parker. It dries 0.4m and a small spring here is 1m (big spring 0.2-0.4m), so it wouldn't be going aground that often.

The winter spot is right at the top of a creek that only gets wet on springs, hard earthy bottom with a scattering of small stones. The Seal only floats on big springs (but draws 2 feet) and so I suspect the Parker would float more. Also the worst-case wind direction is beam on. Perhaps I could strap some kind of material under the hull to protect it? That said if I could find one with a trailer (must be hen's teeth) then taking it home would be amazing...

I suspect you're right, I'd like the sailing performance of the Parker and SWMBO would like the comfort of the Fulmar or similar - suggestions please!
Click to expand...

Mine has a trailer! But not selling for a couple of years!

I think SWMBO will have you in a Fulmar anyway!
 
I shocked myself the other day adding up what I pay for winter storage, so I think you have the right idea. Security needs thinking about though, a bigger boat is a bigger target and you may want to remove most everything from the boat in the winter. However,

One of these might come into your range:

https://plymouth.boatshed.com/etap_28i-boat-176646.html

Great thing for two couples are the separate aft heads and aft cabin. find one with the tandem keel and they are nice and shallow for drying out on short legs.
Don't think they are very sporty though.
 
Trevelyan said:
Roblpm I'd be interested to know how you think the parker would cope in an 'up the creek' berth with a hard "earthy" bottom (floating only on a spring tide) - does it sit entirely on its belly (the seal 22 has a stub of the keel which sticks out) and does it have option to fit legs to stop it from falling over? Or should I not even be contemplating it and trailer it home instead?

I suspect Kelpie is right in that I probably don't want to be trailering (but for the concern about lift keels that sit on their belly, as above) and as Quandary says there are winter options for the creek, winter marina fees or finding a mooring that is insurable 12 months. I had wondered about 'more long keel' fin keelers like Kelpie suggests (thinking these would offer better sailing performance than a bilge keeler). I wouldn't be able to use my private summer mooring (but that's not a showstopper). I wonder if it would cause a heart attack every time the wind blows - by comparison the seal 22 when on legs doesn't have far to fall over! Kelpie how stable is the leg arrangement/how sheltered is your wintering spot?

Once upon a time I had a Hunter Horizon 26, whilst it had very good accommodation for the size the sailing performance was disappointing. Westerly's of a bilge keel variety seem to be 'good bang for the buck' and no doubt have solid construction that would take some bottom bouncing, but I wonder if they will have the sailing performance I'm looking for.

I'm finding this very helpful to guide the Googling, thanks all... keep the ideas coming!
Click to expand...

I don't actually winter with the boat on legs, I just move her to the drying out spot for a few days when I'm doing maintenance. I'm not too worried about falling over, but I don't want to risk having the boat spin round and catch itself on the anchor chain- I've heard you can damage the legs this way. So the boat needs to be on a fore and aft mooring, and my spot it's a bit exposed for that.
 
Roblpm you said "lifting keel is more maintenance than bilge" - what do you have to do? Can the keel be lifted upwards out of the boat, or does it have be hung on crane slings to antifoul etc. Are there any wear and tear components that need attention? Another thing that puts me off lift keels - although so far my Seal 22 has been absolutely fine!
 
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