Ideal boat for the east coast?

Athomson said:
The only point having a boat that can dry out on the east coast rivers is to have a cheaper half tide mooring.
Click to expand...

The thing is, the east coast is very often shallow. If you start a thread called “ideal boat for the east coast”, then to me you’re asking about boats with not much draft. What else is of particular importance to an east coast boat that makes it differ from a boat in any other part of the country?
 
fredrussell said:
The thing is, the east coast is very often shallow. If you start a thread called “ideal boat for the east coast”, then to me you’re asking about boats with not much draft. What else is of particular importance to an east coast boat that makes it differ from a boat in any other part of the country?
Click to expand...
You've got a very good point and when I started sailing there I would have agreed with you. Many years later I would say that sailing ability and being able to point up a river into a westerly wind is more important. I never dried out when I had my only boat able to do so and I can't remember the last time I got stuck despite drawing 1.5-2.0 metres in subsequent boats. Touched the bottom many times but always got off.
 
fredrussell said:
The thing is, the east coast is very often shallow. If you start a thread called “ideal boat for the east coast”, then to me you’re asking about boats with not much draft.
What else is of particular importance to an east coast boat that makes it differ from a boat in any other part of the country?
Click to expand...
I had my first 2 boats at Mel Skeets at the very top of the Deben so I know about shallow and mud. I also spent a couple of summers in North Norfolk and know the joys of a bilge keeler that the kids can jump out of and build sand castles around at low tide. I don't see that the east coast rivers are any shallower than anywhere else. In the rivers there are shallow areas and there are main channels where its deep the same as everywhere else. Only for regularly crossing the Thames estuary swatchways did the barges need shoal draft but the need for it in small boats seems over exaggerated/assumed maybe because of that history. If you only want something to explore the creeks and dry out in saltings with the birds for company (I'm with you on that) then a little lift keel boat is ideal. And fair weather hops between rivers are doable in anything.

But more than the title the OP said he wanted to move up to cross channel and longer coast hops, so he needs to consider like you say what is of particular importance to east coast boating which in my opinion is not ditch crawling ability or half an hour more time to cross swatchways but cutting through short chop. OK so you need a foot more depth but if you are beating up a fairly narrow channel with any amount of wind over tide you need a fine bow and not too much volume. Last little bilge keeler I had bucked and pitched like a rodeo horse and went nowhere fast (some are better). But it was terrible in typical east coast waters despite for some reason bilge keelers being typically considered ideal east coast boats. As said ? even at sea in the Thames estuary we're constrained in direction of travel in channels not much wider than big rivers, the coast is also mostly aligned that way and half of any typical day its wind over tide.

johnalison said:
One look at the chart shows you that almost all the waterways run NE-SW, ie with or against the prevailing winds. This means that much or your time will be spent going to windward. Unless you have a shallow mooring or need one to save money, the ability to go to windward is a priority, meaning that a fin keel will serve much better. The difference may not seem much on paper, but my old fin-keeled Sadler 29 would get from Orwell to the Blackwater, say, about half an hour before its twin rivals, and seeing similar boats disappearing ahead is not something I enjoy. If you are actually going to use the benefits of twin keels, that is fine, but I see many of them in marinas and few of them drying out or holed up at the top of creeks.
Click to expand...
and the reason they are not using the benefits of a twin keel is the mud. Can't get out and scrub the boat or go for a walk around if you're up to your shoulders in mud
 
Athomson said:
OK so you need a foot more depth but if you are beating up a fairly narrow channel with any amount of wind over tide you need a fine bow
Click to expand...
I'm a great fan of fine entries. Many of the AWBs from 20 years ago were very full in the bow and suffered as a result. I am pleased to see that recent boats are much finer, though their exaggerated beam aft doesn't always seem to work well. The one thing one can say about the larger freeboard of today's boats is that they can cope with a fine bow without becoming too wet.
 
johnalison said:
I'm a great fan of fine entries. Many of the AWBs from 20 years ago were very full in the bow and suffered as a result. I am pleased to see that recent boats are much finer, though their exaggerated beam aft doesn't always seem to work well. The one thing one can say about the larger freeboard of today's boats is that they can cope with a fine bow without becoming too wet.
Click to expand...
There's not much downside to a bit more freeboard, compared to the downside of adding volume in other areas anyway. The bucking little bilge keeler I had, which frankly if i mispronounced that it would still be right, was ruined by too much volume at both ends. And there's no way out, motoring into it was worse than sailing of course, so just had to hang on and resit the temptation to shout yeehaa!
 
Athomson said:
I had my first 2 boats at Mel Skeets at the very top of the Deben so I know about shallow and mud. I also spent a couple of summers in North Norfolk and know the joys of a bilge keeler that the kids can jump out of and build sand castles around at low tide. I don't see that the east coast rivers are any shallower than anywhere else. In the rivers there are shallow areas and there are main channels where its deep the same as everywhere else. Only for regularly crossing the Thames estuary swatchways did the barges need shoal draft but the need for it in small boats seems over exaggerated/assumed maybe because of that history. If you only want something to explore the creeks and dry out in saltings with the birds for company (I'm with you on that) then a little lift keel boat is ideal. And fair weather hops between rivers are doable in anything.

But more than the title the OP said he wanted to move up to cross channel and longer coast hops, so he needs to consider like you say what is of particular importance to east coast boating which in my opinion is not ditch crawling ability or half an hour more time to cross swatchways but cutting through short chop. OK so you need a foot more depth but if you are beating up a fairly narrow channel with any amount of wind over tide you need a fine bow and not too much volume. Last little bilge keeler I had bucked and pitched like a rodeo horse and went nowhere fast (some are better). But it was terrible in typical east coast waters despite for some reason bilge keelers being typically considered ideal east coast boats. As said ? even at sea in the Thames estuary we're constrained in direction of travel in channels not much wider than big rivers, the coast is also mostly aligned that way and half of any typical day its wind over tide.


and the reason they are not using the benefits of a twin keel is the mud. Can't get out and scrub the boat or go for a walk around if you're up to your shoulders in mud
Click to expand...

This is what I have learnt from this thread - that my original anticipation of a bilge /twin keel has now been replaced with an appetite more for a good sailing boat with a fin or lift keel. I've been to look at a few on the market before we were constrained again and have a much better idea of what I want - a 28-30ft with decent interior space. I took a good look at a Contessa 32 but found the forecabin and heads far too tight for me (6ft/15stone). I looked at the Kelt at Titchmarsh but its too much of a project for me. Quite taken with the couple of Maxi 84s they also have there. Also looked at a Konsort which is nice but not the boat for me, though did like the Sadler 29 but not the one I looked at. So you can see where I'm going.
 
Athomson said:
There's not much downside to a bit more freeboard, compared to the downside of adding volume in other areas anyway. The bucking little bilge keeler I had, which frankly if i mispronounced that it would still be right, was ruined by too much volume at both ends. And there's no way out, motoring into it was worse than sailing of course, so just had to hang on and resit the temptation to shout yeehaa!
Click to expand...
I'm not keen on having more freeboard generally. I appreciate its usefulness in keeping a boat dry and in making it easier for the designer to pass stability tests, but the additional volume doesn't add much.

My own boat is an HR 34, a '90s design which is moderate in most respects. A friend ordered one because he liked it, but production had stopped and they ended up with the 340. This boat is a tiny bit longer but with a lot more freeboard, and the layout is much the same inside. Although there are one or two places where the extra volume shows, as in the heads, in general it is scarcely noticable. The extra height, and nearly plumb stem, make boarding and anchoring a lot harder. We are both happy with our boats, enjoying the bits that are better than the others while being aware of the factors that we lack.
 
johnalison said:
The extra height, and nearly plumb stem, make boarding and anchoring a lot harder.
Click to expand...
you mean raising the anchor without damaging the boat? I hadn't thought of that but can see how it would be hard to keep it off if it swings around. I just looked at some pictures and see even with the little bowsprit the chain comes up inches from the stem. I can imagine it hits every time
 
Vid said:
This is what I have learnt from this thread - that my original anticipation of a bilge /twin keel has now been replaced with an appetite more for a good sailing boat with a fin or lift keel. I've been to look at a few on the market before we were constrained again and have a much better idea of what I want - a 28-30ft with decent interior space. I took a good look at a Contessa 32 but found the forecabin and heads far too tight for me (6ft/15stone). I looked at the Kelt at Titchmarsh but its too much of a project for me. Quite taken with the couple of Maxi 84s they also have there. Also looked at a Konsort which is nice but not the boat for me, though did like the Sadler 29 but not the one I looked at. So you can see where I'm going.
Click to expand...
We’re on the east coast and find our Kelt 29 perfect for us, they don't come up often but worth keeping looking, there are also similar French designs with lift keels and similar internal design
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vid
I’ve been sailing a swing keel First 235 on the East coast (based Medway) for the last 7 years. The boat sails brilliantly and has been great fun to race. Our two boys are getting bigger now though and we have the desire to go further in more comfort, so we’ve bought a fin keel Fulmar. We used the Benny’s swing keel a lot to make the most of being able to travel through the Swale etc at lower water, but we almost never dried out except in a drying marina. As has been said above, the mud makes it very unlikely you’re going to want to dry out and get off the boat. I’ll miss the advantage of shallow draft, but being able to travel further in comfort will hopefully make up for it.
 
johnalison said:
I'm not keen on having more freeboard generally. I appreciate its usefulness in keeping a boat dry and in making it easier for the designer to pass stability tests, but the additional volume doesn't add much.
Click to expand...

I think the extra freeboard gives headroom in a modern shallow hull which was previously available in the deep narrow wineglass hull. It also facilitates extra cave berths under the cockpit, increasing the accommodation as a big sales factor. In larger boats this may not be so relevant as they have the volume already.
 
To put the cat amongst the pigeons a shallow boat let's you sail away from the crowd.
Several local guys don't really bother going out on a busy sunday here on the Orwell.
Yes if priority is to beat up and down the wallet with time constraints you need a could windward boat.
So much of our beautiful estuaries are out of bounds though if draft is a manger concern. On any reasonable tide the vast majority of Harwich haven has 5-6 or more feet over it. This is a vast empty area to be enjoyed.
The tides are the other consideration, if you can get in and out of just about everywhere at low water you end sailing a lot less against foul conditions and when you get there finding an empty mooring or anchorage is easy.
 
Aquaboy said:
To put the cat amongst the pigeons a shallow boat let's you sail away from the crowd.
Click to expand...
Thats true everywhere though not just east coast and OP was asking about a cross channel and coastal boat primarily. I ditch crawled all over the essex and suffolk rivers for years in a lift keel trailer sailer and agree best thing was being able to keep going past the typical anchorage / moorings and having the place to myself, then you really get the advantage of the mud keeping people away. A bilge keel boat that can dry out even if not as shallow gives half the advantage but something that dries and floats in a foot of water does extend the range a lot but then the OPs question would have to be which is the best ditch crawling boat. I have to say I'm not sure I'd want to dry out randomly in a heavy expensive lift keel boat that can also do channel crossings. Lots of things to pierce the hull in theory but I don't know if it happens much. So I think its either/or not possible to have both
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vid
Daverw said:
We’re on the east coast and find our Kelt 29 perfect for us, they don't come up often but worth keeping looking, there are also similar French designs with lift keels and similar internal design
Click to expand...
That's good to know, thanks - I looked at a couple of Kelt's last year and liked them - a 29 and an 8m I think. There'a not much information that I can find on them online, but they seem to have a good combination of features that other boats don't have - good interior space with a proper aft cabin, the lifting keel, good sailing performance, sensible price etc.
 
I asked this question some months ago and I’m pleased to say I’ve found my ideal boat for the East Coast - an Etap 28i with a Scheel keel: I think she’s a great combination of size, interior layout plus good sailing performance and a modest draft (1.2m) for those low tides in little creeks. Very happy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top