hartcjhart
Well-Known Member
not so much a 'job protection' scheme but a surefire money earner,all those 'rich' yachtie's look to them like a cash cow ready to be milked
ICC
- Thread starter 1bobt
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not so much a 'job protection' scheme but a surefire money earner,all those 'rich' yachtie's look to them like a cash cow ready to be milked
hartcjhart
Well-Known Member
I am surprised they say they dont have records,my certification lapsed 6 years ago but when I spoke to them they said no problem just fill the forms in for a renewal,
are you a member of the RYA?
macd
Well-Known Member
And this would increase the level of competence to that of the countries where such certification is mandatory? I'd love that.
Grehan
Well-Known Member
ICC, with the CEVNI endorsement (basically, ColRegs for inland waterways) is a requirement for European rivers and canals.
Personally, I've never been asked for it (some people have) and it has expired. Shamefully, I guess I am too tight-fisted to give the RYA some money for the 'renewal'.
Hire boaters need nothing and are hot to trot with some minimal explanation of the controls. That's why I tend to apply ColRegs Rule #1.
Personally, I've never been asked for it (some people have) and it has expired. Shamefully, I guess I am too tight-fisted to give the RYA some money for the 'renewal'.
Hire boaters need nothing and are hot to trot with some minimal explanation of the controls. That's why I tend to apply ColRegs Rule #1.
Marsupial
Well-Known Member
They can impound the boat until you take a test or employ a skipper who is "qualified"
My wife is 50% owner and they wanted her ICC as well (in Greece)
rivonia
Well-Known Member
My Yachtmaster Offshore has always been accepted. No photo on it as It was issued by Intec Maritime College in South Africa (RYA APPROVED EXAMINERS) many many years ago.
Peter
Peter
MASH
N/A
Surely by international convention a vessel operates under it's flag nation's rules and paperwork, maritime rules vary so much it would be impossible to abide by everyone's. Clearly this isn't the way it works in practice but we'd be in trouble if another nation demanded a "licence" to operate a yacht as no such thing exists in UK.
Chartering - say - a Greek flagged boat you operate under their rules.
Chartering - say - a Greek flagged boat you operate under their rules.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That only goes so far. The international "convention" only applies if you are on "innocent passage" - that is voyaging through the coastal waters or entering port on business. As soon as you start cruising in coastal state waters you can be required to meet local rules. However, under the principle of "comity" most states will accept flag state rules. They have no obligation to do so and many states enforce local rules on visitors, or foreign flagged boats based in their waters. For example safety equipment in Portugal, requirement for licence for power boats in France (and probably other countries), CEVNI as already mentioned and DEKPA in Greece.
No doubt others can quote different examples.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Why do you think that? Do you have any evidence that certification (or lack of it) has any impact on safety?
Carmel2
Well-Known Member
Just got a stamp out of Kalymnos. They couldn't even copy out the name of the boat or the OH's name right, they confused our flag for a US one, they had tremendous difficulty working out how many days I had been in been in port, despite a entry stamp.
I think if I had offered up my ICC they would have gone into total meltdown.
I think if I had offered up my ICC they would have gone into total meltdown.
1bobt
N/A
I did my tickets at Conwy North Wales mid nineties.. The office there has now closed down, I never bother to apply for an ICC as it was not needed for my requirements. I have sailed in Greek waters for 19 years and have never been asked produce. was only something I spotted on another thread..
MASH
N/A
Tranona, thanks, that was very helpful.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
No, I didn't pick up what you meant but as I recall, and my DEKPA has only had one and a half pages used in ten years, they didn't ask to see my ICC when they issued mine and by God it took some doing to get one since even in those far off days they were in short supply at PP stations.
On the profiteering point, we have been in company with a boat new to Greece this year but skippered by an RYA Offshore, instructor-examiner and his view of the RYA certification scheme was that it is nothing more than a money-making scheme to pay the executives' inflated salaries.
hartcjhart
Well-Known Member
yes. I work in the 'heavy industry' and training does make people think more,ok you will get a few that dont give a damn but I have seen over the years a change in peoples 'physc'
rivonia
Well-Known Member
If that was the case- then why has he got all the certificates and become an examiner for the RYA? just a thought
Peter
macd
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't go quite that far: the RYA is a profit-making organisation, after all. But it irks when having an ICC is effectively compulsory, and you've usually already paid them in acquiring their qualifying cert for ICC in the first place. As it happens the slim, not-so-old, lady not-from Eastbourne got her ICC from a training outfit in the Med: it lasts for life. If anything (cf hartcjhart's point about the merits of training), that's an incentive to take quickie, low-grade training rather than something more substantial: not exactly conducive to raising the general standard.
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jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
Was he in fact criticising the ICC and the need for 5 yearly renewal? That 5 year renewal is part of an international agreement, and nothing to do with the RYA. The RYA are just agents delivering a third party service.
I'd be surprised if he was criticising "the RYA certification scheme" - a scheme which he assists in developing and implementing, and which is copied by other nations as a model.
And perhaps that "best of a kind" model (which is completely voluntary, but gathers large numbers of adherents) is successful because it pays the necessary salaries.
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
Training is a very different thing from compulsory licencing. There is already a well established scheme for training which many people use. Where compulsory licencing is in force the standard is almost laughably low and there is no evidence that the countries with such schemes are any "safer" than the UK, despite the boating conditions here being among the most challenging in the world.
The cost of testing and licencing everybody would be way out of any proportion to the doubtful advantages it may have.
macd
Well-Known Member
Don't know if 'he' was, but I was.
Are you sure about the 'five year' bit, Jim? I quite understand that the RYA (along with a couple of other bodies) acts as agents for the MCA in issuing ICCs.
But I've read UNECE Resolution 40 and found no reference whatever to a five-year (or any other fixed) period of validity.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Not entirely sure the 5 year renewal is still valid, but was at the time it was introduced to bring it in line with the professional seafarers certificates brought in at the same time. There is also some logic (buy not necessarily justification) as boat registration was also changed to 5 year renewal.
I have heard that other countries now issue them for life along with their own local compulsory licence which is for life. Don't have any confirmation of that but if it bothers you, take it up with the RYA.