ICC woes... do I really need it

[Graham376]

May! Go to Portugal first, goto the council office, get a fiscal number, half an hour, then go to the general office and ask for a five year temporary residence, 15 euros, a few simple questions, the marina address suffices, and you are then a temporary resident of Portugal for the next five years.

But all the information posted here so far says the 90 day restriction in other States will still apply. Even worse, it was suggested on one camper van forum that the time spent in EU country of residence e.g. Portugal, could count as time spent in Schengen, leaving zero time in the other States. Having done various searches, I can't find anything to back that up.

 

[macd]

...and you are then a temporary resident of Portugal for the next five years.

Not hugely helpful for someone who looks forward to extended cruises on the French canals having commuted from SE Asia.

But all the information posted here so far says the 90 day restriction in other States will still apply. Even worse, it was suggested on one camper van forum that the time spent in EU country of residence e.g. Portugal, could count as time spent in Schengen, leaving zero time in the other States. Having done various searches, I can't find anything to back that up.

Quite, Graham (in the event of a "no deal" Brexit, or after a transition period which made no other arrangements). Regarding the second part, I've also not seen the slightest suggestion that time in the state of residence eroded time in the rest of Schengen. And there is a widespread precedent to this: clearly all Schengen states currently have legitimate third country residents who also enjoy 90-in-180 travel elsewhere in the EU. Brexit might be new, but third country nationals in the EU are manifestly not.

 

[Lizzie_B]

I have been cruising the East and Gulf coasts of the USA since 2004 and have found very useful, especially with waterborne sheriff's deputies in some of the more rural areas. I wouldn't be without it.

 

[Tony Cross]

May! Go to Portugal first, goto the council office, get a fiscal number, half an hour, then go to the general office and ask for a five year temporary residence, 15 euros, a few simple questions, the marina address suffices, and you are then a temporary resident of Portugal for the next five years.

So what? You'll still be a British citizen and thus (likely) subject to 90 days in 180 everywhere else in the EU.

 

[Lizzie_B]

In the UK the RYA (Royal Yachting Association) administers the ICC.

 

[Lizzie_B]

note : whose power does NOT exceed 4.4kW (6.11 hp) - I would hazard a guess that most foreign boats going to France or elsewhere in the world have engines exceeding 6.11 hp and are therefore not exempt.

It is also very common for countries to require foreign vessels and crews jump through hoops that the locals don't have to.

When I sail in the US I am governed by very different additional rules to the locals - with the added complication that it can vary from state to state.

It is also a fallacy to assume that all the officials you meet will a. know the rules, b. if they know the rules, interpret them in the same way.
Just try taking an inflatable life jacket on a plane for a crew change to see how well staff know the rules or apply them. ;-)

One further thought. Is the OP an EU citizen or Australian? It may well be worth checking if everything is the same for non EU citizens.

 

[Lizzie_B]

When you hire a boat on the canals the hire company explains the rules to you and gives you a try out on the boat. After that you are covered on their craft and their insurance.
However their test is usually not transferable beyond that holiday. Rather like the run through you get on the Norfolk Broads is not transferable as a Day Skipper ticket.

 

[macd]

One further thought. Is the OP an EU citizen or Australian? It may well be worth checking if everything is the same for non EU citizens.

The OP seems long ago to have lost interest, having last visited the forum over six years ago, long before the Brexit debacle. Recent posts have been largely in response to posts #56 & 57 by a self-declared British citizen. Prior to that, the thread had been dead for over seven years, although the last rites were unaccountably neglected.

Since you ask, everything is not the same for non-EU (and EEA) citizens. Principally, some need visas, some do not, although the 90-in-180 rule applies to all in the absence of other arrangements. (For instance, some individual EU countries have historic treaties with some third countries, permitting six month stays in those specific EU countries, but not in Schengen in general.)

In the UK the RYA (Royal Yachting Association) administers the ICC.

I think most UK forumites know that (although more strictly the RYA is just one of several UK bodies which administer ICC).

 

[LadyInBed]

Lizzie_B long time no hear! Remember this?

 

[Monique]

Asked many times for proof... the more bureaucracy the country has, the more often you are asked..

 

[Graham376]

So what? You'll still be a British citizen and thus (likely) subject to 90 days in 180 everywhere else in the EU.

In theory yes but, as things stand at the moment, unless using marinas no-one knows when we come and go. I don't know how many states have computer systems able to track people or boats from marina to marina or, whether we will have to visit police or customs when moving between states. What do non EU citizens have to do now?

 

[macd]

I'm sure that's largely true, Graham. But even though the risk may be slight, it's important to factor in the possible penalties, which can be severe, up to and including confiscation of your boat. Think "illegal immigrant", because that's exactly what you'd be.

 

[PlanB]

In theory yes but, as things stand at the moment, unless using marinas no-one knows when we come and go. I don't know how many states have computer systems able to track people or boats from marina to marina or, whether we will have to visit police or customs when moving between states. What do non EU citizens have to do now?

When arriving at a Spanish Marina, paperwork is completed, a copy of which is passed to both the Guardia Civil and the Fronteras dept of the Policia National.

 

[Graham376]

I'm sure that's largely true, Graham. But even though the risk may be slight, it's important to factor in the possible penalties, which can be severe, up to and including confiscation of your boat. Think "illegal immigrant", because that's exactly what you'd be.

It's places such as the Guadiana which could become confusing. Just south of Alcoutim/SanLucar, it's normal to anchor on the Spanish side but, more often than not, we dinghy to Alcoutim on the Portuguese side. A bit further north, many boats are anchored in the middle of the river, abreast of the border. Resident expats regularly cross from one side to the other for shopping or social visits. It appears it's a common area as far as authorities are concerned, when they arrive to inspect paperwork it's often a joint exercise with Portuguese and Spanish officials.

 

[nortada]

It's places such as the Guadiana which could become confusing. Just south of Alcoutim/SanLucar, it's normal to anchor on the Spanish side but, more often than not, we dinghy to Alcoutim on the Portuguese side. A bit further north, many boats are anchored in the middle of the river, abreast of the border. Resident expats regularly cross from one side to the other for shopping or social visits. It appears it's a common area as far as authorities are concerned, when they arrive to inspect paperwork it's often a joint exercise with Portuguese and Spanish officials.

Not sure but I have been told (by the locals) that although the Rio Guadiana is administered as an international (shared) waterway, it is legally in Portuguese territory. This could become significant to liability to Portuguese Circulation tax.

Throwing a line ashore on the Spanish side, or better still, a night in Ayamonte marina, will resolve this.

Not with standing that the Portuguese seldom collect this tax.

 

[RupertW]

In a decade of sailing in the Med and beyond our lack of an ICC has never been mentioned let alone been a problem so I have no plans to get one. But we do have my RYA certs in the pack we give to officials and they may have looked at them. However it always seems like the only things they are interested in are insurance cert, SSR, crew list and VAT proof a couple of times (years ago)