ICC for caostal waters?

[snowleopard]

What use are qualifications?

Firstly, places where you may actually need to produce a certificate-

-On continental inland waterways
-(maybe) to foreign officials
-to charter companies wanting proof of competence
-to insurers to get a discount
-to potential employers

If none of those apply, why bother?

-To satisfy yourself that your level of knowledge is up to the job
-To give yourself a reason for learning a lot of obscure stuff
-pure personal satisfaction
-to get bragging rights in the clubhouse

On the down side, there can be a temptation to think that because you have the YM you now know everything.


Going back to the point of foreign officials demanding to see an ICC or whatever, we hear of many cases where officials themselves don't know the rules, particularly in respect of foreign registered boats only having to obey the regulations of the country of registry. If an official in France demands that your boat complies with French law, he may be wrong but are you going to rely on being able to talk him out of fining you?

 

[tel1]

As you have so much experience the ICC test should be no problem. I thoroughly enjoyed my test, particularly the tester's compliment about my boat handling skills (I have an underpowered wayward long keeler). To which I replied "If I don't know how to handle it after 23 years I should be shot!"

correct, it was no problem

When I returned to motorbiking after a 20 year lay off I decided to get a refresher from the IAM. I was really very surprised by the amount of new stuff I learned and the number of faults that were corrected. If you havent done your YM practical I suspect you would find exactly the same thing. bad habits creep in unnoticed.

To put it another way, I feel and believe I am far safer with my son driving than my father in law despite the latter having 4 times as much experience.

totally agree, i have many bad habits, but its up to you on how much you wish to go by the book. if i dont wear my lifjacket and i go for an unwated swim i shall totally blame myself, and my pure stupidty!

The ICC is free to members, £40 to non members. Hardly "hundreds of pounds".

i was quoting all qualifications. if you start with competant crew and work your way to ocean yachtmaster you will be in the hundreds of pounds. if not thousands!

 

[smee]

ICC

Its certainly not new, it was required for inland and coastal waters when I did mine in 2000 for cruising the French Canals and the Mediterranean coasts of France and Spain.

The ICC is the easy route to getting a European accepted license, however for those who have gone a leap further the YM Blue Book, of course, which is a higher qualification is accepted also.

Some people seem to think as one is British, one does not need it for cruising Europe. However try telling that in French or Spanish to a gun toting Guardia Civil or Aduana who is trampling all over your boat in his hobnail boots! He will most likely have a sense of humour failure, which will mean far greater scrutiny of all documents and the boat! I cruised the South Coast around Poole for ten years & I never did see a Customs Official or Police checking boats in the area, but over here in Mallorca it is an entirely different matter the Aduana's and the Guardia Civil are out on a regular basis, summer and winter.

 

[timbartlett]

if you start with competant crew and work your way to ocean yachtmaster you will be in the hundreds of pounds. if not thousands!

Isn't that rather like claiming that a garage charged you £20,000 for a tankful of petrol -- forgetting to mention that the £20,000 included the tank, which just happened to be attached to a brand new car?
The "thousands" that you quote is for the training, not for the qualifications.

 

[tel1]

Isn't that rather like claiming that a garage charged you £20,000 for a tankful of petrol -- forgetting to mention that the £20,000 included the tank, which just happened to be attached to a brand new car?
The "thousands" that you quote is for the training, not for the qualifications.

sorry, i thought anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise it included training?

of course its for the qualifications as well. with out mile building and getting your logbook filled out, you cant qualify to sit your ym exam!

 

[bendyone]

Booked to take the test (no training) on the 20th of March in Torquay. Doing it sailing so will also cover motor up to 10m.
Will only need it going inland in France, but may also be handy to have the "bit of paper" elsewhere.

 

[Doghousekeeper]

Booked to take the test (no training) on the 20th of March in Torquay. Doing it sailing so will also cover motor up to 10m.
Will only need it going inland in France, but may also be handy to have the "bit of paper" elsewhere.

best of luck. Hope it all goes well on the day

 

[dk]

Tim

How come my YM cert lasts forever, but the ICC only 5 years?
Apart from the obvious, why don't the RYA issue multi-language YM certs with pics like the EU driving license?

For what it's worth I've sailed back and forth to France for the past 30 years. I always carry my YM cert in a folder with all my other docs, which I hand over when requested by the French authorities. They are usually very pleased that I have made the effort to put everything (Full boat details, SSR, VHF licenses, YM cert, insurance cert, copy of passport etc) together in one file. I have never ever been asked for an ICC!

D

 

[timbartlett]

Tim

Are you asking me? And if so, why? The RYA is a customer of mine: I'm not privy to all their decision-making processes!!

How come my YM cert lasts forever, but the ICC only 5 years?

Because the ICC is a government document issued in accordance with an international agreement that stipulates that it cannot be valid for more than 5 years.

Apart from the obvious, why don't the RYA issue multi-language YM certs with pics like the EU driving license?

No idea! Personally, I like my dark blue hardback book better than yet another credit-card sized piece of plastic with a smudgy photograph. And anyway, how many photographs of yourself do you want to carry around with you? ;-)

 

[thedoc]

ICC

Wow! i read the whole thread. My guess is it is a certificate designed to get £40 from the anxious and vulnerable.......am I right?
It really isnt fair, the anxious and vulnerable always get it in the neck, shouldnt someone produce a clear guide with them in mind, it would be a very responsible thing to do.
Definitely a donkey designed by several committees that should have been strangled at birth (the committees , not the donkey).

 

[timbartlett]

Wow! i read the whole thread. My guess is it is a certificate designed to get £40 from the anxious and vulnerable.......am I right?

No.
It's an intergovernmental document designed to stop innocent holidaymakers from falling foul of mindless bureaucrats while they are visiting a foreign country.
You don't complain about having to pay for a passport (do you?), or an international driving permit, and I've never heard of anyone suggesting that the AA or RAC are to blame for the fact that some foreign countries won't accept a UK driving licence without an IDP.

It really isnt fair, the anxious and vulnerable always get it in the neck, shouldnt someone produce a clear guide with them in mind, it would be a very responsible thing to do.

That's a completely different matter. The trouble is that quite a few of the "anxious and vulnerable" seem quite keen to shoot the messenger!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Wow! i read the whole thread. My guess is it is a certificate designed to get £40 from the anxious and vulnerable.......am I right?

I think so. I don't have an ICC and I haven't had the slightest problem.

I'd have more sympathy with the argument that the ICC is there to protect from "mindless bureaucrats" if some verifiable examples of cases of British People 'falling foul' in areas where an ICC is not required were presented.

Specifically what does 'falling foul' mean? Imprisonment? Fines? Let's see some verifiable examples of 'falling foul'.

 

[sailorman]

I think so. I don't have an ICC and I haven't had the slightest problem.

I'd have more sympathy with the argument that the ICC is there to protect from "mindless bureaucrats" if some verifiable examples of cases of British People 'falling foul' in areas where an ICC is not required were presented.

Specifically what does 'falling foul' mean? Imprisonment? Fines? Let's see some verifiable examples of 'falling foul'.

if one as a complete numpty /novice hired a cruiser from Hoseasons in France one does NOT NEED any QUALS at all.
I rest my Case

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

The trouble is that quite a few of the "anxious and vulnerable" seem quite keen to shoot the messenger!

Only because they think the message is a total fabrication using woolly language to scam a few quid.

Of course that might be wrong - in which case just post a bit of evidence and I'm sure people will be happy to buy ICCs every five years.

 

[Doghousekeeper]

if one as a complete numpty /novice hired a cruiser from Hoseasons in France one does NOT NEED any QUALS at all.
I rest my Case

Not sure what point you're making here ??

 

[Doghousekeeper]

Only because they think the message is a total fabrication .

A total fabrication - Resolution 40? Someone had better tell the UN

 

[sailorman]

Not sure what point you're making here ??

if you own a boat inland France icc req
hire a boat no icc req
wheres the logic

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

A total fabrication - Resolution 40? Someone had better tell the UN

Straw Man Fallacy.

 

[Sybarite]

Sailing licenses : The situation in France

Sea : For a sailing boat you do NOT need a license (unless you are acting in a professional capacity eg charter skipper, sailing school skipper etc).

For a motor boat with an engine of more than 4.5KW (6hp) you need a license.

Mixed sail/motor To determine which is predominant :

Using the formulae :

(a) R = S / square root of L X D

S = Sail area in m²
L = LOA
D = displacement in tonnes

If the result is less than 5.5 then it is a motor boat.

or, (b) Q = 1.36 P / D

P = power in kw
D = (as above)

If the result is greater than 9 then it is a motor boat.


Inland waters : All sailing boats on inland waters are considered motor boats. For this you need an appropriate license or extension to a motor boat license for inland waters. Contrary to the situation on the sea, anybody who helms must have the license.

 

[BrendanS]

That is for French residents, not international visitors. If I turn up in Cherbourg in my UK motorboat, from the UK, I need no licence