ICC - Do you really need it?

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If it wasn't for copyright - I would post a copy of the RYA pages relevant to this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]Since the RYA has been given, by Government, the responsibility of representing international rules governing British yachts, is it right and proper that the RYA should keep information about international rules private, for its members only, under its copyright? I argue that it is effectively Government property and should be made available to all interested parties. Not that I expect you to publish it, of course, but it should be freely-available on a public part of their website or put onto the MCA website.
 
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Why do so many people on this forum ignore the question? "Has anyone ever been asked etc..."
Anyone can pontificate on their interpretation of what they believe the RULES to be, including the originator of the thread.
He is asking how many of us have ACTUALLY BEEN REQUESTED TO SHOW OUR ICC.
Put me down for a never - UK - Portugal - Spain 6years.

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Sorry, but you haven't answered the question! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif He asked who HAS ACTUALLY, not WHO HASN'T. You haven't so you shouldn't have replied if you were going to answer the question as asked /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
As your post was directed to me, may I draw your attention to my first post in this thread (#2151618), in which I answered precisely that I had been asked for my ICC in Croatia. A little more relevant than your own that merely lists where you were not asked for it.
 
Not been asked for ICC in UK, Gib, Ceuta, Majorca and Sant Carles - Yet!

Do I have one - Yes

Would I travel to foreign waters without one - No

Same as proof of VAT paid! Oh no not that one again..... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

IMHO: Take the exam, dont take the risk! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
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I admit that this was quite a few years ago but it was enough to impress upon me that something is needed.

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Errr, doesn't it prove that nothing is needed?

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Perhaps I was unclear - sorry for that. I cruise Croatia every year, either passing through or remaining all summer as I am based in the northern Adriatic, and every year I have to present a sailing certificate of competence amongst other documents to obtain clearance.

The incident I recounted, of a British yacht that also was applying for clearance at the same time without a certificate, and was forced into an expensive practical examination, happened some years ago.
 
You are wrong about Greece. It is a legal requirement to show evidence of competence to skipper a Greek registered charter boat. This evidence can take many forms. For many years my yacht club membership card was accepted. With one charter company, they issued an elaborate certificate of their own saying I was competent. As Greece does not specifically recognise the UK ICC it cannot demand it. However, most other European countries issue licences to yachtsmen - in Switzerland for example you need one to own a boat, so local officials who stamp your log are happier with something more official than a Bulldog Printing Press piece of card. In Corfu there was an incident involving a charter boat where a Greek was injured and immediately the Port Police became more officious. I had to attend the office in person to get the log stamped whereas previously the charter operator did it. Having an ICC removes the hassle.

Now my boat is off the Greek register I do not need an ICC, but like vyvcox, I have had occasions where the Port Police look at it, so I always keep it and my VHF licence in with the ships papers. However, their main interest is the SSR and Bill of Sale because they have the figures to enable them to work out port dues!

On a general point the RYA admit that the situation is unsatisfactory. However we should be thankful that an ICC is so easy to obtain, in just the same way that we should be thankful for their efforts in helping establish the SSR to meet evidence of registration.

As to UK signing up to Resolution 40, this would not require UK residents to have evidence of competence in UK waters, but presumably visitors would. I have never seen any mention of this, or whether and how it is enforced.
 
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You are wrong about Greece.

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I'm right. You do not need an ICC in Greece. Nor do you need any RYA quals. In fact you need no formal qualifications at all.

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On a general point the RYA admit that the situation is unsatisfactory.

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Unsatisfactory if you sell sailing qualifications. Very satisfactory if you want to go sailing without paying a fortune for qualifications.


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However we should be thankful that an ICC is so easy to obtain,

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You can be thankful for that, I'm thankful that I don't need it thus saving me the time it takes to do the exam and £55 quid every three years (IIRC)!

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in just the same way that we should be thankful for their efforts in helping establish the SSR to meet evidence of registration.

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Let's get this straight. You've claimed elsewhere there is a system of fixed penalties for those who arrive in France without an original SSR. Why should anyone be thankful for extra legislation to trip them up and cost them cash?

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As to UK signing up to Resolution 40, this would not require UK residents to have evidence of competence in UK waters, but presumably visitors would. I have never seen any mention of this, or whether and how it is enforced.

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Or to put it another way your statement, as far as you know, was wrong.
 
In 20+ years of visiting France up to 5 times a year including 2 circular canal trips to Med I have only been boarded once.
I was asked for my 'Documentation'.
This left 'Documentation' open to my interpretation, I produced my Passport, SSR and Insurance.
They were satisfied, end of story.
I have never specifically been asked for an ICC or a 'licence'.
I could have produced Ships Radio Licence, Radio Operators Certificate, ICC and Birth Certificate, but it was not IMO necessary, so I didn't.
The more documentation you produce for inspection, the more the officials will expect to be produced! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Been asked for "my licence" once, last year in Spain by the (marine) Guardia. Afraid my Spanish was as good as their English and it took some time shuffling through ship's papers until it eventually transpired that it was the ICC they wanted.

Unlike the more experienced forumites: "sailing 40 years and never asked for one," I have not been sailing long.
 
I really don't know why you keep insisting you are right about Greece. Please read what I wrote instead of making things up. Nowhere did I say that you needed an ICC, nor RYA qualifications. I correctly stated trhe law which says you have to provide evidence of competence to skipper a Greek Charter boat. I then gave examples of what the Port Police will accept. You will find that your charter operator has provided that evidence, probably without you knowing. This does not mean that the law does not exist, just that the implementation is slack and variable.

Get your facts right about the ICC. Yes, you can pay £55 to a commercial examiner. Our club has an examiner who charges a much more modest amount. Renewal is every 5 years without a retest and is free to RYA members, £25 to freeloaders who can't be bothered to support the body that makes these things easier than they might otherwise be.

And it is NOT a Sailing Qualification, so the RYA is not in the business of selling you anything, just making life easier for those who need it at minimal cost.

Again if you bothered to be a member and read their material you would see that the unsatisfactory situation is that the adoption and implementation of the UN resolutions, designed to simplify the issues is so variable.

The subject does however, provide lots of material for forumites to argue about.

I did not "claim" that there is a penalty for failing to show registration documents in France. I quoted an article in Yachting Monthly. IIRC another poster in that thread quoting you specific examples and the the relevant codes from French law on registration of boats, which presumably you have chosen to ignore, or are able to tell us are wrong.

Unsupported one liners are signs of a Troll.
 
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Been asked for "my licence" once, last year in Spain by the (marine) Guardia. Afraid my Spanish was as good as their English and it took some time shuffling through ship's papers until it eventually transpired that it was the ICC they wanted.

[/ QUOTE ]The problem is that the Spanish cannot conceive of anyone not having a licence. It is only the Brits who don't have a legal requirement to, and probably 98% of us have some kind of paper quals, even though the law does not require it. So the Spanish expect something as everyone they stop can produce something (from Ocean Yachmaster to ICC, Day Skipper or Competent Crew).

I might have missed it, but was there a single poster who said 'never had a qual and never was asked for one'? I think there might have been one. Most get an ICC. If your languages are good then you might be able to explain.... but life's too short UNLESS it is a point of principle for you, in which case I am on your wavelength entirely -- but I defected as the course of least resistance! I have one but have never been required to show it.
 
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If it wasn't for copyright - I would post a copy of the RYA pages relevant to this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]Since the RYA has been given, by Government, the responsibility of representing international rules governing British yachts, is it right and proper that the RYA should keep information about international rules private, for its members only, under its copyright? I argue that it is effectively Government property and should be made available to all interested parties. Not that I expect you to publish it, of course, but it should be freely-available on a public part of their website or put onto the MCA website.

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Links to Resolutions and MCA material are on their site. But the article where RYA in their own words spell out possible obligations to visitors / long-term berthers in other countries is theirs. Significant difference !!
 
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Why do so many people on this forum ignore the question? "Has anyone ever been asked etc..."
Anyone can pontificate on their interpretation of what they believe the RULES to be, including the originator of the thread.
He is asking how many of us have ACTUALLY BEEN REQUESTED TO SHOW OUR ICC.
Put me down for a never - UK - Portugal - Spain 6years.

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True - but when yoy wade through the extra you'll find that many have answered - I know I did.

Trouble is I think we all get sidetracked by one post that goes at a tangent and we lose sight of original.
 
You sound like a recruiting agent for the RYA. Freedom of association is at the very heart of democracy; and the freedom NOT to associate is, also.

To suggest that non-RYA members are 'freeloaders' is obscene. The RYA does not represent my views or my interests. I resent that my Government has given such power to a commercial organisation. Many, many others feel the same way.

As for your comments about the recurring fees, I suggest that you re-read what the poster actually said, not what you think he said.
 
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Links to Resolutions and MCA material are on their site. But the article where RYA in their own words spell out possible obligations to visitors / long-term berthers in other countries is theirs. Significant difference !!

[/ QUOTE ]Well, I did look ?yesterday and couldn't find it. Maybe it is there....do you know where?
 
i am relatively new to sailing,ive done 4 courses so far,im a bit unclear about this Cevni certificate,is this aplicable to your boat such as the UK,s inland water ways safety certificate or is it more of a certificate for the Skippers abilitys.

so far ive done RYA 1+2 ,day skipper (allows me to apply for the icc) and DSC radio operators cert

my personal view point is that i enjoy doing the courses,learning can be fun and in the event of a mishap it is better to have a "ticket" than to argue a legal point no matter if you are the most experienced guy in town.
 
CEVNI is a very simple two sided test paper - multi-choice, containing 14 questions, you need 11 correct to pass.

It cost me £30 and took about 10 minutes - just need to gen-up first which I found most interesting - if you read the RYA 'European Waterways Regulations' book you can't go wrong - even has test questions at the back.

Your ICC is then endorsed with Inland Waterways validated.
 
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