I need a liferaft, but theyre too expensive

[Andrew_Fanner]

[quoteAndrew, this seems to be actual experience of the difficulties involving the type of RIB a small yacht might have available.

Hardly comparable with the RNLI situation.

PS, see your boat is based in Sunbury. The requirements you will have in that area, would obviously be different to those chosen elsewhere, where a liferaft would be more suitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boat in Sunbury, play area is Estuary - Ramsgate and round thataway. rarely more than 10 miles off shore but often somw way from anywhere with actual water to float in. The rib still seems the sensible approach, as another poaster suggests, it gives you a proactive way to deal with the problem and get yourself out of the poo. If its too lumpy I wouldn't be there so my risk assessment is based on fire or holing emergencies rather than weather related abandonment.

 

[bedouin]

The reason we are focussing on the channel is that this whole conversation is based on what is required for the occasional cross channel trip. Further offshore or ocean is a totally different situation and there you have to be self-sufficient for much longer.

Although I carry one (and a liferaft too) I see 4 problems with HH VHF. Firstly it is more bulky than the EPIRB, so I am less likely to carry it in my oily pocket.
Secondly it is not "Emergency Only" so there is always a risk that the batteries are flat or that it is in some other way disfunctional
Thirdly even fully charged it has much less endurance than an EPIRB.
Fourthly - and probably most significantly - it requires someone to be there and listening. HH VHFs are really "line of sight" only - in any sea state moderate or rough from low down in a liferaft you would have trouble contacting a ship even if there were someone listening on CH16

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmm...I think that cross channel in season you'd soon contact someone with a HH. I don't advocate that as the primary distress (yikes!) but it would probably be quick and effective if you knew your exact position - say with a HH GPS. Just my personal opinion.

 

[alorwin]

Recently completed and passed my commercial survival course (for the second time) I agree , disagree with many posts here and I am qualified to state fact, opinion and knowledge. I would not do this as I dont wish to be dragged in but would strongly advise that everyone take at least the RYA sea survival course and then let all opinions be based on fact. Your gained knowledge could also save the lives on another vessel and also your kids , grandkids or other dependants . They only have one choice, YOUR CHOICE so close your eyes and picture their faces and assure them and yourself you are doing it right.

 

[bedouin]

I humbly suggest that the GPS is not necessary - because if you can contact someone by HH VHF (a) you are within a couple of miles and (b) you can see them so you can give a relative position.

 

[FWB]

[ QUOTE ]
would strongly advise that everyone take at least the RYA sea survival course

[/ QUOTE ]
I had to do some liferaft stuff when I was a pilot for BA. Having to pull a number of bikini clad hostesses into a liferaft is not for the faint hearted /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[tome]

[ QUOTE ]
Having to pull a number of bikini clad hostesses into a liferaft is not for the faint hearted

[/ QUOTE ]

Can quite imagine judging by the robust BA cabin staff I've encountered of late

 

[tome]

Have to say I'd go for HH VHF over EPIRB for channel crossings if had to make a choice. Typical merchant VHF antenna height will give 12-15M range, even if the HH is at sea level. I wouldn't bet on less than 6 hours EPIRB response whereas VHF can confirm immediate predicament

Battery capacity will be plenty. It's not transmitting continuously, unlike EPIRB

Having said that we have liferaft, EPIRB, flares, HH VHF and New Testament. Thinking of adding the Koran this season..

 

[Anonymous]

How do you know which vessel you are talking to on the HH? "I'm over here just off your port bow". If you can even see them, of course, depends on the viz. If you take to the boat or raft you ought to take a HH GPS if you possibly can, it could save your life.

 

[bedouin]

15M from a HH? Isn't that a bit optimistic? I thought 3-5 M was the best you could realistically expect

 

[tome]

Line of sight, work it out. Don't confuse it with yot2yot ranges which are in the order you suggest

 

[bedouin]

I think the limitation is going to be the power of the VHF - not the line of sight

My other concern is how many merchant ships now maintain an effective listening watch on CH16

 

[tome]

Not so at all. A typical HH will chuck out between 3 - 5 W as opposed to 25W from the main set. I did some experiments in open mountainous terrain in Argentina and power was almost irrelevant to range. We easily obtained 20km noise free from a mere 0.5W transmitter. Line of sight was the only limiting factor

Power is more important in blasting through interference. That's when you can't have enough, and I'll concede that the Channel with all its radio traffic may be a case in point

 

[boatmike]

I think you might have a negative response from both unless you decide between the Koran and New Testament before setting off!
Personally I would take a copy of Reeds......
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous]

All ships and the CG monitor Ch 16 24/24

 

[Koeketiene]

Sigh

[ QUOTE ]
All ships and the CG monitor Ch 16 24/24

[/ QUOTE ]

All ships?
What do you mean - the Filipino with mop & bucket on the bridge?
When I was very, very young I did 3 6-month tours on merchant navy tankers & bulk carriers. Crew was 25-30 west europeans. Similar size vessel these days has a crew of 10-11. You're lucky if there's 2-3 trained people (Master, 1Lt & Ch Eng), of the whatever's cheap variety (Russian, Roumanian, Chinese, ...). As for the rest...

As to CG - for how much longer? How many times has it been advertised that they will shift to "listening watch" "soon"? No longer a dedicated operator, but on speaker somewhere in the background?

I know it's fashionable on here to claim that you will never install a DSC set as long as your WWII vintage radio still works, but the time will come when you will have to move with the times.

 

[boatmike]

Totally agree with Gaupa. You are living in a fantasy world sunshine. These days you are fortunate if there is anyone on the bridge with his eyes open let alone monitoring channel 16. Get real!

 

[Anonymous]

Rubbish. You obviously don't leave the Solent. Try sailing across the Channel at night or in poor viz, listening to Ch 16 and you'll hear frequent chat between watch officers about traffic separation. If you don't hear it it's because you are not there or not listening to Ch 16

 

[graham]

[ QUOTE ]
All ships and the CG monitor Ch 16 24/24



[/ QUOTE ]
In an ideal world ......
I guess its true to say that all the ships you hear on 16 are on 16.

As part of my job I have to speak to ships on VHF it often takes a call on several"likely"channels to raise a response.

 

[boatmike]

Actually I cross the channel quite frequently but I admit only for the last 35 years or so so a relative beginner I suppose..... Yes you hear traffic. Mainly VTS (Joburg Traffic), and intership If you think that means everyone is keeping a watch on channel 16 all the time for your emergencies though dream on. You are indeed living in a fantasy world. Increasingly even MCA don't respond immediately to a 16 call and as Gaupa says they are no longer on full time listening watch either.
The truth is that Gaupa does indeed speak with a certain degree of experience and you should respect that. If you listen to him, and many other professional or ex-professional seamen (who in my own profession I have mixed frequently with) you will hear a different story from the one you imagine.
If you choose to ignore it and shout "rubbish" then fine, but I know he is right and so do most of the other forumites from planet Earth too I suspect.....