FWB
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When I used to fly for a living we heard EPIRBs going off on 121.5 regularly....mid Atlantic, mid US mostly. We reported one when flying over the Malacca Straits, we were told that they had been looking for it all day!
I need a liferaft, but theyre too expensive
- Thread starter matnoo
- Start date
tome
Well-Known Member
I think Bedouins point is that these days 406 MHz is used for alerting, via a complex Hex ID code so the idea of set top boxes generating an alert is a bit ridiculous really
121.5MHz is still used, but only as a final homing signal and not as an alert. Things have moved on a bit since your days of flying
121.5MHz is still used, but only as a final homing signal and not as an alert. Things have moved on a bit since your days of flying
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
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So small that there were at least two recorded incidents last year - and received attention from the national media
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Okay then - post a reference. Without that I simply will not believe that random interference from a digibox could look like a properly coded EPIRB signal
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4614598.stm
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So small that there were at least two recorded incidents last year - and received attention from the national media
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Okay then - post a reference. Without that I simply will not believe that random interference from a digibox could look like a properly coded EPIRB signal
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4614598.stm
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
>>>
RIBS are not good in bad conditions.
>>>
Pardon? Does the RNLI know that?
RIBS are not good in bad conditions.
>>>
Pardon? Does the RNLI know that?
bedouin
Well-Known Member
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4614598.stm
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That's the same incident as was referenced a few posts higher - the more complete report on the "Scotland on Sunday" does state that it was 121.5MHz
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4614598.stm
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That's the same incident as was referenced a few posts higher - the more complete report on the "Scotland on Sunday" does state that it was 121.5MHz
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
I don't believe this is the Spanish Inquisition - I am not on trail here.
You don't have to believe me - I'm only stating what I've learned from my involvement in over half a dozen SAR ops. Where, when & why is nobody's business but my own.
If anything, my contribution here has made people think twice about the myth of "instant rescue".
Even mid Channel it would be safe to count on over 6 hours before help shows up.
Alarm's received.
Let's get a fix on position.
Confirm with French counterpart (CROSS)
Check ID
Check if passage plan has been filed
Contact POC
No reply - try to contact marina where boat is kept
Alert shipping in the area
Last resort - scramble helo and/or lifeboat.
Before you know it: over 6 hours - easy.
Scramble time at a typical RAF/RN/MCA helo station is 20 mins.
As the SAR "business" is due to be part privatised in the near future (thank you Nu Labour) launching a helo will very much be the last resort. These things cost money.
Haven't you noticed when watching Seaside Rescue that 9 times out of 10 there's already another emergency service on site? Same thing at sea: CG will always look for confirmation of the EPIRB alert before a scramble or lifeboat launch. Either by confirmation obtained from the POC or sighting by another vessel.
All to illustrate that the point made by an earlier poster that he would not get a life raft (too expensive) but would rely on an EPIRB and an inflatable dinghy is irresponsible. Economy on safety is no economy at all.
To think that by just pressing an EPIRB button help will be scrambled Battle of Britain style is not only naive in the extreme; it's downright dangerous.
If you think that you've no business being out on the water.
You don't have to believe me - I'm only stating what I've learned from my involvement in over half a dozen SAR ops. Where, when & why is nobody's business but my own.
If anything, my contribution here has made people think twice about the myth of "instant rescue".
Even mid Channel it would be safe to count on over 6 hours before help shows up.
Alarm's received.
Let's get a fix on position.
Confirm with French counterpart (CROSS)
Check ID
Check if passage plan has been filed
Contact POC
No reply - try to contact marina where boat is kept
Alert shipping in the area
Last resort - scramble helo and/or lifeboat.
Before you know it: over 6 hours - easy.
Scramble time at a typical RAF/RN/MCA helo station is 20 mins.
As the SAR "business" is due to be part privatised in the near future (thank you Nu Labour) launching a helo will very much be the last resort. These things cost money.
Haven't you noticed when watching Seaside Rescue that 9 times out of 10 there's already another emergency service on site? Same thing at sea: CG will always look for confirmation of the EPIRB alert before a scramble or lifeboat launch. Either by confirmation obtained from the POC or sighting by another vessel.
All to illustrate that the point made by an earlier poster that he would not get a life raft (too expensive) but would rely on an EPIRB and an inflatable dinghy is irresponsible. Economy on safety is no economy at all.
To think that by just pressing an EPIRB button help will be scrambled Battle of Britain style is not only naive in the extreme; it's downright dangerous.
If you think that you've no business being out on the water.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
6hrs is a bit better than 18-24hrs that you originally quoted - but I still very much doubt if that is true. Could you perhaps provide an example?
bendyone
Well-Known Member
It happened last year, was reported on the BBC news.
alant
Well-Known Member
"Quite often it is far too rough to get into the tender 3.4m RIB 'safely' and we don't go ashore. Other times we can't launch the tender from the stern davits (sugar-scoop stern, far too dangerous) so we lift it alongside with the spinnaker halyard. Once it was so rough at anchor I couldn't safely get the tender up on davits so I left it riding to the kedge anchor, sailed round the headland to a marina and came back two days later to retrieve the tender."
Andrew, this seems to be actual experience of the difficulties involving the type of RIB a small yacht might have available.
Hardly comparable with the RNLI situation.
PS, see your boat is based in Sunbury. The requirements you will have in that area, would obviously be different to those chosen elsewhere, where a liferaft would be more suitable.
Andrew, this seems to be actual experience of the difficulties involving the type of RIB a small yacht might have available.
Hardly comparable with the RNLI situation.
PS, see your boat is based in Sunbury. The requirements you will have in that area, would obviously be different to those chosen elsewhere, where a liferaft would be more suitable.
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
...If anything, my contribution here has made people think twice about the myth of "instant rescue".....All to illustrate that the point made by an earlier poster that he would not get a life raft (too expensive) but would rely on an EPIRB and an inflatable dinghy is irresponsible.
[/ QUOTE ]At lease it's now clear that your original post was rubbish and intended to frighten people into thinking how you think. I reckon that's just as dangerous as sailing without a liferaft. Besides, the over 50s would have a greater probably need for a defibrillator, wouldn't they? Anyway, it is very unhelpful and irresponsible to report such rubbish especially claiming to have some official inside knowledge. Not very impressed.
...If anything, my contribution here has made people think twice about the myth of "instant rescue".....All to illustrate that the point made by an earlier poster that he would not get a life raft (too expensive) but would rely on an EPIRB and an inflatable dinghy is irresponsible.
[/ QUOTE ]At lease it's now clear that your original post was rubbish and intended to frighten people into thinking how you think. I reckon that's just as dangerous as sailing without a liferaft. Besides, the over 50s would have a greater probably need for a defibrillator, wouldn't they? Anyway, it is very unhelpful and irresponsible to report such rubbish especially claiming to have some official inside knowledge. Not very impressed.
A
Anonymous
Guest
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Pardon? Does the RNLI know that?
[/ QUOTE ]Search me, but one would hope so. Of course they tend to use larger RIBS than we use on small yachts as tenders.
Pardon? Does the RNLI know that?
[/ QUOTE ]Search me, but one would hope so. Of course they tend to use larger RIBS than we use on small yachts as tenders.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
See my replies above - what was reported was a signal on 121.5MHz not from a 406 EPIRB
A
Anonymous
Guest
I'm not on the boat right now to check my books but ISTR that the accepted delay is about 2 hours for a 406 EPIRB. I suspect - but have no evidence - that a GPS EPIRB would result in more action since both the GPS and the satellite fix would confirm the position. But that is only a 'theory', not fact.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
6 Hrs is a good average in the Channel which for some reason everyone seems to focus on.
In the Channel - IMHO - an EPIRB does not make sense. You'd be far better off with a DSC VHF. Chances that there's no other ship within VHF range is virtually nil, AND you can use it to talk!
In open sea - where an EPIRB makes sense - it will take on average 18hrs before it would be safe to assume that help is on it's way.
In the Channel - IMHO - an EPIRB does not make sense. You'd be far better off with a DSC VHF. Chances that there's no other ship within VHF range is virtually nil, AND you can use it to talk!
In open sea - where an EPIRB makes sense - it will take on average 18hrs before it would be safe to assume that help is on it's way.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
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Anyway, it is very unhelpful and irresponsible to report such rubbish especially claiming to have some official inside knowledge. Not very impressed.
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What rubbish?
Anyway, it is very unhelpful and irresponsible to report such rubbish especially claiming to have some official inside knowledge. Not very impressed.
[/ QUOTE ]
What rubbish?
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Strikes me, folks, that Guapa has been there, done that, and we haven't. So why the vituperation?
Can't comment on EPIRB response, but have heard CG calling (without reponse) a vessel which had triggered a DSC VHF alarm, and nothing seemed to happen in terms of launching a search for it.
Seems logical to me, for Channel sailing, to plump for raft and talking VHF. Good idea to supplement it with a h/h VHF and h/h GPS so you can talk rescuers into your posn.
Can't comment on EPIRB response, but have heard CG calling (without reponse) a vessel which had triggered a DSC VHF alarm, and nothing seemed to happen in terms of launching a search for it.
Seems logical to me, for Channel sailing, to plump for raft and talking VHF. Good idea to supplement it with a h/h VHF and h/h GPS so you can talk rescuers into your posn.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree the RIB I carry is not to be compared with the RNLI ones, but the kind of conditions I cross the channel in are not that extreme generally either. Granted the met for a channel crossing can be unreliable sometimes but as my original post said I adopt this attitude because my boat is unsinkable, and I don't set out in F8 and above anyway. The chances of me getting into a liferaft on a 9-10 hour crossing are far lower than if I were a 26ft monohull which would take longer anyway. It can only be fire or I get run down by a monster sea truck. In the latter case I stand very little chance of survival anyway raft or not. The conditions where a RIB of moderate size would be impossible to board are very extreme and boarding a life raft would be dodgy anyway. However a RIB is not a substitute for a liferaft, but in some cases where you are within range of shore they can be better as you are still pro-active rather than passively waiting for someone to rescue you before you are run down and it's loads better than a half inflated tender..... That was my point.
franky
Well-Known Member
A basic liferaft for 4 people in a canister approx £450 Cradle for raft about £100 Servicing every three years at about £100 Life expectancy of raft 12 years.Total liftime cost £850 Say £1000 including the extras at service.Average annual cost £83.33.Why bother with a hire raft!!
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Cor!! I had to look up vituperation. It means giving the poor sod wellie for 'avin spoke dunnit.....Yeah! Everyone is entitled to an opinion aint they? Don't think any one should say "you have to agree with me just because I have been there though" there is still room for opinions to vary even if you have... although it's quite clear that those who are vituperating are arguing from a position of more limited knowledge.... ( which is a non vituperatin' way of saying they don't know what the 'ell they are talkin about innit?)
I dissagree with the statement he made regarding "if you don't have a life raft you shouldn't be there" and he does not agree with RYA in this respect either. But I do heartily agree with him regarding EPIRBS. Good thing to have but don't rely on instant rescue cos you got one. Seem to be more of the things pinging away merrily than MCA can shake a stick at. You ain't gonna get a lifeboat alongside in 5 minutes with that happening are you?
Lets keep the party clean though folks and if you don't agree give over with the vituperatin stuff for gawd sake! Wanna read opinions not personal crap.. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
I dissagree with the statement he made regarding "if you don't have a life raft you shouldn't be there" and he does not agree with RYA in this respect either. But I do heartily agree with him regarding EPIRBS. Good thing to have but don't rely on instant rescue cos you got one. Seem to be more of the things pinging away merrily than MCA can shake a stick at. You ain't gonna get a lifeboat alongside in 5 minutes with that happening are you?
Lets keep the party clean though folks and if you don't agree give over with the vituperatin stuff for gawd sake! Wanna read opinions not personal crap.. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
bedouin
Well-Known Member
Yes - the figures they give are up to two hours for detection and location of an EPIRB signal, with those with GPS built in averaging about 30-40 minutes less.
I would allow up to an hour on top of that before help is on its way - and in the Channel it would normally take up to an hour or so for help to reach you - but a total delay of 4-5 hours from pressing the button to being hauled out seems reasonable.
I would allow up to an hour on top of that before help is on its way - and in the Channel it would normally take up to an hour or so for help to reach you - but a total delay of 4-5 hours from pressing the button to being hauled out seems reasonable.
