I have to get this off my chest

Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

Blimey - a right old Pandora's Box this turned out to be.

You'll be pleased to know that given the overwhelming tone of views on this site I contacted BG again (a nightmare going through the menus and then to be put on hold with the dreaded Britney Spears waiting music) who agreed to send a second engineer for another "inspection" on Monday. Very interesting referring to my "knowledgable colleagues on Scuttlebutt". "Scuttle what sir?" was the reply /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Anyone want to bet on the outcome? My money is on my gas being re-connected.

Re: dangers/CO/gas leaks etc. - I totally agree that gas and CO are stuff you don't take chances with. However, I fail to see why the physical connection to the roof has to be airtight when the flue boot, the riveted sheet metal section that connects the round metal flue pipe to the square ridge tile clearly isn't. The roof space is very well ventillated and the risk is minimal.
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

This whole country's gone completely bonkers ! !

What ever happened to common sense ? ? ?

It's not only in this area, it's in EVERY other bit of everyday life ! !


To give an example:-
"Would you like to help out with cycling proficiency at (local Primary school) ??

As a keen cyclist all my life, "Yes", says I

"Well remember, you are not allowed to touch the child's bike"

"What about if the chain comes off. Can I help put it back on ?"

Complete explosion ! ! "ON NO ACCOUNT WHATSOEVER TOUCH THE BIKE ! ! IF THE CHILD CAN'T PUT THE CHAIN BACK ON HIMSELF, SEND HIM HOME TO HIS PARENTS"

I got up and walked out at this point ! !

/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Re: Gone completely mad

Jim

I agree. Heard this one in the pub a few weeks ago...

If you have children of the opposite sex, they cannot share a bedroom once the elder child is 10yrs old.

Please tell me it's not true. Do they expect you to buy/rent another house on your kids birthday?
 
Re: Gone completely mad

[ QUOTE ]
However, I fail to see why the physical connection to the roof has to be airtight when the flue boot, the riveted sheet metal section that connects the round metal flue pipe to the square ridge tile clearly isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

And are your roof tiles gas permiable? I assume the flue goes through the roof without a break - so the gas is being delivered outside anyway...
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

I am not condoning the way BG does business personally I believe you are better off with a local tradesman who will be able to give you a better deal in most cases.

Speaking as someone who was until recently running a small gas fitting firm I can tell you that there are various types of tradesmen who can become qualified to work on gas. A suitably experienced plumber is able to apply,a qualified gas fitter is an obvious candidate but also there are many hundreds of time served city and guilds heating and ventilation ENGINEERS out there.

So get off your high horses on that count.

Secondly someone quite rightly pointed out that you dont need to be Corgi registered to work on your own house. This is correct providing you dont let out any part of it.

HOWEVER you do need top be a "competent person" as you m,ay have guessed once again the HSE decide who is competent and you must have been assessed at an approved examination center within the last 5 years to qualify.

I can assure you that running a gas fitting firm is a nightmare of paperwork,regulations and inspections.Much of the high cost to you as a customer is swallowed up in administration.Take it out on HMG not the poor bloody person who comes to do the work.
 
Re: As of today

If your having work done by a non Corgi fitter it is your responsibility to report the matter to your local planning office. They will have the work inspected. This service costs £300. You will get a certificate that must be placed in your sellers pack when you sell your house.

Selling your house with gas appliances. Where's your certificate then? Haven't got one? Oh Dear! You've got a choice then of getting rid of your appliances or having them inspected.

Apparently 30 people a year die in accidents with gas appliances each year in the UK.
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

Graham. I feel that you are banging you head against a brick wall with some of the posters in this thread. They obviously don't like being "regulated" even for their own saftey - after all they know best - but would probably be the first to shout for their solicitor if something we did went wrong. The words "rights" & "responsibilities" spring to mind.

For those who may be interested, Transco don't have to come into your property to disconnect - they can dig the road up outside and cut off your service pipe.

Many times I have come across clients who tell me that they are an "engineer" so they must know what they were doing when they installed a new boiler/gas fire/cooker etc. Turns out they are electrical "engineers" or marine "engineers" and know the Gas Safety (Installation & Use) Regulations inside out - NOT. I have even seen a gas pipe run from the meter at the front of the house to a boiler at the rear of the house in clear plastic pipe with jubilee clips which was installed by an "engineer" would no doubt went through years of highly professional and intensive training to be become such a prat.

The word in the Gas Safety Regulations that causes most disagreement is "competent". This is second only to the word "reasonable" in legal matters. Joe Public does not like being told that he is not competent.

AlexL - IMHO before you make comments regarding "the law" concerning disconnection of faulty gas appliances, you may like to check to find out exactly what "the law" is.
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

Gas is the only bit of my house I don't touch, we have a local CORGI registered plumber who is far better at making joints than me ...

I think you'll find the point that some are trying to make is that the standard that the knowledge and experience of some of the Gas personnel that darken our doors seems rather lacking ...
Putting your faith in every gas fitter is the same as trusting every mechanic to sort your car properly or accepting each sailing instructor as all knowledgible... this just doesn't happen - there are good and bad in every sector - and the way to improvement - on both parts - is to question ... otherwise - shouldn't I have accepted BGs stance on my deteriorating plastic pipe? ... thats £400 I can spend on sailing!!
 
I can only speak from experience and have had 2 in the last year. I too pay BG £160 approx per year for a service and maintence cover. As I said I have used it twice 1st time for a pump replacement which was done within 3 hours or reporting it and second a repair to the fan in the boiler done within 6 hours of reporting. I consider this good value for money when you consider what we spend on boats for parts/labour costs. I also feel reassured that I am not going to be ripped of as you see so many time on telly on programs like "plumbers from hell" where they charge you an arm and a leg for parts and labour that does not need done.
As to turning your heating of etc if the 19 year old lad was following his guidelines and instructions then I reckon he was doing his job pretty well.
The rules are there to protect the gas fitter and the customer
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

The issue here isnt one of safety - I doubt that any of us would want to live with a dangerous gas supply. Nor is it one of thinking we know it all - which of us would consider trying to design a boiler, or even the initial installation of a gas supply. What it is about is the lack of commonsense / proportionality, and the application of sometimes petty regulations by jobsworths.

In my case, it was the simple omission of the outer white steel case from the boiler that caused the plumber to try to report me (CORGI werent interested as it happened). In my previous house the boiler had been installed from new without the case and was available from the maker without it as an option. So how could this be a safety issue to any rational person?

Like the rest of the general public, I resent being treated as an idiot by tradespeople but happily respect someone with specialist knowledge and who is prepared to explain rather than say "you must" and then threaten.
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it true that the actual "hands on" fitter/engineer/whatever doesn't have to be corgi registered as long as the company he works for is?

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. Whilst he is actually working for that company, he is covered by the company's registration. The company have to register their employees with CORGI and the employees must be suitably qualified to work on the elements of gas that they handle (i.e. domestic wet boilers, water heaters, gas fires, domestic cooking, warm air, etc, etc, etc.) There are some 92 elements in all.

[This is why, if you call a Transco emergency engineer out for, say, a gas leak on your boiler gas control valve, he can only disconnect the appliance not repair it as he is only qualified to work on pipework & meters.]

If, however, the employee does "out-of-hours" jobs (not under the control of his employer) then he must be registered with CORGI in his own right as must be any self-employed installer.

So, if (for example) your local BG man does a moonlight job for Fred down the pub, he must be CORGI registered in his own right or he is breaking the law.
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

[ QUOTE ]
So, if (for example) your local BG man does a moonlight job for Fred down the pub, he must be CORGI registered in his own right or he is breaking the law.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Fred can pay an inflated rate to the employer who can send the same man to do the same job? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Re: I have to get this off my chest so do I

Benchhead - perhaps now that it`s gone quiet we can have a chat.
Please relate this to your first posting and no others.

With due respect Perhaps you have been very lucky this time.
Please just get the repair done either by BG or any registered gas fitter.
You see by you pointing out that the boot flue was not airtight only makes the situation worse and that will have to be replaced as well.
Let me try to explain,
You gas appliance flue is open at the base to allow neutral pull on the appliance, then combustion products have to rise up the flue and be discharged into free air therefore the flue itself has to have a positive pull.
Some lofts as you say are very open and there is lots of air but the situation is that air can build up on a windy day and create a pressure zone inside the loft.
If the seal on the flue in the loft is not made properly this air pressure can enter the flue and upset the draw from the appliance.
This can lead to the combustion products leaking back into the room, well this is alright the first time but as they are drawn into the burner the second time incomplete combustion takes place and the appliance gives off Carbon Monoxide
Having worked in the industry for the last 30years I have seen death and destruction though strangely enough most deaths are not caused as you might imagine by an almighty blast with debris and bodies flying everywhere no it`s usually a quiet affair with the victims going to sleep and only being discovered when someone goes to investigate the smell.
Although I have many horror stories I will recount just 2. On the Norfolk Broads a party of teenage lads hired a boat. Although It was summer it was cold so when they turned in for the night to supplement the heating they lit all the cooker rings and sealed themselves in, they never woke up. This led to legislation.
In the late seventies a young couple had an argument with the girls mother and taking their two young children, one a babe in arms took to the streets, looking in the local paper they found a bed sit and moved in. As it was the middle of winter and the electric heater provided was inadequate. their first night was spent huddled up together for warmth.
The next day the lad arrived home with a second-hand gas fire he had bought from a junk shop. Setting it on the floor he then took a garden hose and with a couple of jubilee clips connected it to the cooker point. The lad of course was only looking after his young family as best he could but tragically they all died that night, poisoned by Carbon Monoxide.
It’s a blood awful way to die. First you are paralysed so you know you are in trouble and you can see the phone , but you can’t move.
Other symptoms of Carbon Monoxide poisoning are: drowsiness, weakness, headaches, impaired concentration and pains in the chest. The above symptoms can often be mistaken by doctors as other illnesses. Sometimes the symptoms are ongoing and the affects can build up in the body. Regular servicing of gas appliances and a safety check as the fitter carried out for you greatly reduce the chance of Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Prolonged exposure to relatively low levels of Carbon Monoxide can cause irreversible brain damage. Any yellow flames or sooty marks are a sure sign of problems.
You may have thought that the fitter was being officious in his attitude but the reality is no-one likes their gas turned off for whatever the reason, so he is instructed to just do it and not to explain.
I honestly believe that if that bad flue connection could have got worse and if there was even a 1000 to I chance that it could have affected you or your family that fitter was not prepared to take it. Please give him the benefit of the doubt.
Over the years I have seen bad installations, some absolute nightmares but in the (good) old days we had no power even to switch them off, we had to go to BG and ask for assistance.
Since legislation I have turned a lot off on the grounds of safety, but I have never once done it with the blessing of the owner.
Does it bother me.
No, I have a tragic memory of a young lad in a bed sit trying to comfort his wife and kids
And it doesn`t bother me at all.


…………………..
 
Re: ReService Engineers duty of care.

[ QUOTE ]
[But Fred can pay an inflated rate to the employer who can send the same man to do the same job? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Again correct. But Fred would have a come-back if the job went t*ts up. Not many moonlighters have public liability insurance or scruples and would probably vanish into the night if a problem cropped up and poor old Fred would be out of pocket. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: I have to get this off my chest so do I

Entirely agree, Uncle Albert. Only to-day, I disconnected a dangerous gas multipoint water heater in a rented property much to the landlord's annoyance but at least I will sleep tonight as will the tenants (and wake up in the morning)
 
It's the fear of having some unmentionable bill when you ring a gas fitter from the yellow pages when the boiler packs up on a freezing night in January....
 
When I moved into my current house I was told the existing boiler was not coverable under a service contract owing to it's age and had a new boiler installed. A radiator then needed replacing. Was told this was not covered because I had'agressive water'. Kicked up a fuss, and they said 'just this once then' After many phone calls asking them for their criteria of 'agresssive' water which they were unable to supply I gave up, and still have the same sealed system , frequently topped up by the same mains water that I drink, make tea and bathe in. Have not resorted to bashing old ladies on the head or similar anti-social behaviour. Yet.
 
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