I’d be grateful for opinions on two choices for liferaft stowage

[Frank Holden]

I'd go for the cockpit valise....... I would also terminate the lifelines in way of the cockpit with 'small stuff' rather than turnbuckles as is the norm. That makes it far easier to either fish someone out of the oggin or to step into one's liferaft..... assuming one has a knife handy..

 

[bedouin]

I'd certainly go for the aft option. In the circumstances you may be thinking of deploying, or getting ready to deploy, a liferaft the last thing you want to have to do is to spend valuable seconds scrambling forward and trying to evacuate people from a sinking boat into a liferaft at the bow sounds unnecessarily complex.

Don't forget the risk of the boat capsizing but not sinking - in which case auto-deployment won't work and you need to be able to deploy manually with the boat upside down.

I will probably get shot down for this again, but I am wondering about buying the simplest / lightest liferaft out there (a coastal style) on the rational that the decreased weight and easy of handling more than offset the difference in performance for offshore sailing.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Neither valise in a locker or cradle on the foredeck would be my prefered option, in my opinion the best place for a liferaft is in a cradle on the coachroof aft of the mast or on the pushpit, if it’s got to the point of abandoning the boat for the liferaft I would prefer not to have to navigate to the foredeck to get to the liferaft.

 

[Kukri]

I will probably get shot down for this again, but I am wondering about buying the simplest / lightest liferaft out there (a coastal style) on the rational that the decreased weight and easy of handling more than offset the difference in performance for offshore sailing.

I think that makes sense and it also makes sense to go for the minimum contents pack. The fewer things that have to be replaced during a service, the lower the cost of the service, and the practice of carrying a “grab bag” is so institutionalised now that liferaft manufacturers actually sell ready made grab bags along with their life rafts!

 

[bedouin]

I think that makes sense and it also makes sense to go for the minimum contents pack. The fewer things that have to be replaced during a service, the lower the cost of the service, and the practice of carrying a “grab bag” is so institutionalised now that liferaft manufacturers actually sell ready made grab bags along with their life rafts!

The key bits of emergency kit are the PLB and the handheld VHF. I would expect to be picked up in a few hours, certainly less than 12 hours. I can probably manage without the fishing kit. and even without water,

Probably have a grab bag with a couple of flares (all I intend to carry on the boat), torch etc

 

[dom]

My tuppence worth: I'd go for the locker, for the overarching reason that boats being abandoned are likely to have aboard exhausted, injured, inexperienced, young, or old people. The foredeck in adverse conditions may simply be untenable. I agree with advice to specify a light sub-24hr LR which will save a lot of weight. Though having seen reviews and examined the cheap Seago ones I'd never recommend one of them, although that's a matter of opinion.

People always refer to 'grab-bag' in the singular, but there's no reason not to have two or more, one of which can be stored beside the LR with additional user-defined auxiliary supplies. This is what I do.

I would also construct a cradle or other fixing method to ensure the LR is exactly where you want it, when you want it. Locker contents can be bounced around in a blow and there is a risk the LR could end up settled under other gear requiring a complicated extraction.

Finally, it should be relatively easy to launch, for if not add into the equation heavy soaked gear, fatigue, and a bouncing boat and it may not be possible to launch at all. People seem to hope adrenaline will ultimately help, but a RN friend of mine warns of its limitations. So if lifting is tricky, practice it with whomever you sail with, figure out a good foot or knee brace, and these additional parameters may even influence where in the locker you choose to store it.

Good luck!

 

[Kelpie]

I went and voted without reading the OP's particular circumstances- apologies.
A dedicated cockpit locker obviously makes a great deal of sense.
However in most boats putting the LR in a locker means it is going to end up right at the bottom with all your other stuff on top of it... and trying to haul it out will not be a lot of fun...

 

[Boo2]

...So we opted for a pushpit mounted canister (which I realise is not an option for you)...

Can I ask why the OP cannot have a pushpit mounted canister ?

I have my liferaft in a canister in a stainless steel cradle attached to the pushpit in such a way that releasing 2 over centre catches and the canister will slide out and self launch.

When not sailing the cardle is pad locked to prevent theft.

+1. This is my setup exactly and is amenable to fitting a Hammar automatic release at a future date if I should so choose.

Boo2

 

[Kukri]

Can I ask why the OP cannot have a pushpit mounted canister ? Boo2

The pushpit is a bit busy! But any older counter sterned boat would find it hard to fit the liferaft cradle on the pushpit, I think.



This is a snap that I took of the Needles aboard her identical twin sister, to show my teenage son, who was too busy throwing up to appreciate the historic scenery, but it shows the port liferaft valise locker. Pull up the bronze wedges and the locker door will fall out, followed by the raft. The gear pocket and the winch handle pocket are on the door. Inside that locker is a drain pipe plumbed into one of the crossover drains, a stowage for half s dozen unopened gas bottles (not in use) and a valise shaped space.



This is not my picture - see attribution- but it shows the location of the foredeck liferaft cradle rather well

 

[maxi77]

To be honest having to lift a liferaft to deploy it is a bad idea, you have no idea who will have to do it or how fit they will be. We started with a fore deck mount and after a stormy passage I quickly realised it was a bad solution. On the next boat we removed the cabin roof mounted raft for the same reason and went for a pushpit quick release cradle which could be activated with a single hand by a child or injured person and the canister freefall into the sea. Basically lifting is a no no even if you are a weightlifter.

 

[maxi77]

The pushpit is a bit busy! But any older counter sterned boat would find it hard to fit the liferaft cradle on the pushpit, I think.



This is a snap that I took of the Needles aboard her identical twin sister, to show my teenage son, who was too busy throwing up to appreciate the historic scenery, but it shows the port liferaft valise locker. Pull up the bronze wedges and the locker door will fall out, followed by the raft. The gear pocket and the winch handle pocket are on the door. Inside that locker is a drain pipe plumbed into one of the crossover drains, a stowage for half s dozen unopened gas bottles (not in use) and a valise shaped space.



This is not my picture - see attribution- but it shows the location of the foredeck liferaft cradle rather well

But if a re-arrangement was going to save your life.

 

[Frank Holden]

I wouldn't want to be trying to step off that transom in a seaway....

I think her previous owners may have known what they were doing.

Re Hammar hydrostatic releases, we lost the frd liferaft while crossing Bass Strait in a gale once.... it was in quite a well protected spot behind the 'Baltic Shroud' on a 120 metre ship...... well we thought it was well protected....

 

[Neeves]

There are a surprising number of us who independently came to the same conclusion and decided against convention (life raft on coach roof, foredeck, locker or down below) and contrived ways, from the descriptions slightly different to each other, of having the raft on or very near the transom and rely simply on gravity to deploy the raft. Like Roger we simply lift a pin, 'gate opens' - and the raft falls into the sea.

There seems little point of carrying a raft if it is difficult to deploy by any single member of crew. I'm sure Frank will confirm that the rafts with which he was concerned all fell by gravity into the sea - by simply pulling a lever (or something similar).

I really don't see what is so busy on the transom that a little tidying up might not resolve - why are those GPS aerials (for example) not on a pylon and the cables not threaded through the stainless tubing. My guess is you will need to invest in some electric winches - tidying up the exisiting transom, in comparison, should be cheap and just housework .

You might need to invest in a ladder to allow easier exit into the raft/water (with a gap introduced to the lifelines (pelican hooks would fit the bill).

If you are going to push the boundaries I would not suggest you reply on being picked up in 12 hours - the Golden Globe does illustrate rescue from some portions of the world can take days - and carrying water will be essential. On this note - we had our raft serviced once in HK (by the same people who service aircraft safety kit) and we did 6 crossings of the S China Sea - on re-servicing it was found to contain no water and no flares (how would you know?). It merits being on site when the raft is packed.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I did not complete the survey as I did not think it contained any acceptable options.

Jonathan

 

[Richard10002]

I’d sit it on top of one side of that seat by the back stay. You might be giving up a bit of seating area, but needs must

Or get rid of half of the seat?

 

[Frank Holden]

....... I'm sure Frank will confirm that the rafts with which he was concerned all fell by gravity into the sea - by simply pulling a lever (or something similar).
.......

Jonathan

Yes, that is the norm.... but none were designed to fall... by gravity... off the back of the boat... ( please don't try to compare with many of today's free fall lifeboats.

Gravity off the back may be good on some yachts but how are you going to board the raft? Off the back or will you haul raft towards midships or abreast the cockpit?

Electric winches? See my comment above re rugby players

 

[Neeves]

Yes, that is the norm.... but none were designed to fall... by gravity... off the back of the boat... ( please don't try to compare with many of today's free fall lifeboats.

Gravity off the back may be good on some yachts but how are you going to board the raft? Off the back or will you haul raft towards midships or abreast the cockpit?

Electric winches? See my comment above re rugby players

Free fall lifeboat, far from my thoughts - I was actually thinking of those stack, or racks, of rafts, in canisters on the Promenade Deck of cruise ships, which obviously free fall into the sea. Quite how they get the passengers into them had not crossed my mind.

If you are sinking and the situation is irretrievable then stepping into the raft with the water level not much below deck level might be one option. Hauling the raft to amidship or cockpit does not help much if the freeboard is too much - you need a ladder wherever you choose.

Now I need to read back and find your comment on 'footie' players.

But before I read it - this is a yacht being prepared for the wife and children - how they are they going to help Minn raise sails without an electric winch - as he has not yet mentioned paid hands, hostess nor chef. I had mentioned in a previous communication we actually looked at a sister ship to Minn's (Pacha), but in aluminium alloy (delightful) but a handful if you do not have access to decent crew. She was moored, at the time, nearby - and we had a good look when she was for sale - very tempting for ocean passages, less so for an afternoon - and short handed - we would need electric winches, but then we are not footie players (now I'll go and find your comments!)

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Electric winches? See my comment above re rugby players

I had read that!

Minn has told us one of the children did not quite appreciate the 'moment' of passing The Needles. Rugby player or not - sea sickness can make a wimp out of the best of us.

But yes I was a bit presumptious and had assumed (noting Minn' good taste in yachts (I am envious)) Minn's better half was a sylph like beauty and unlikely to play rugby - I obviously got it wrong! - a sylph like beauty who does play rugby?

Jonathan

 

[Frank Holden]

I had read that!

Minn has told us one of the children did not quite appreciate the 'moment' of passing The Needles. Rugby player or not - sea sickness can make a wimp out of the best of us.

But yes I was a bit presumptious and had assumed (noting Minn' good taste in yachts (I am envious)) Minn's better half was a sylph like beauty and unlikely to play rugby - I obviously got it wrong! - a sylph like beauty who does play rugby?

Jonathan

I must admit... I have only met the rugby players......

 

[KellysEye]

Ours was in a frame on the aft quarter if the back rail, it had line tied to the rail that deployed the life raft when you released it. The reason for fitting it there was if the boat sinks quickly then then it can be released quickly.