Hydraulic helm pump leaks

[Tim O]

I have a Wagner A W helm pump on my 33 foot ketch which has been leaking Slowly from the shaft Over the last year or so....eventually I tried replacing the shaft seals (two rubber o rings) with a replacement seal kit which came with the boat....checked the part numbers and seems to be the right one. I took out the two old seals and pushed the two new ones in...

simple right?

Except now it’s leaking worse than before!!!
There is a little bit of play in the shaft...maybe 2-3 mm in and out and 1mm up and down....this was like that before I touched the seals?

Any thoughts....?

 

[Tim O]

 

[rogerthebodger]

Is the front plate where the seals are mounted plastic.

Mine was and it distorted and needed to be replaced.

I was able to make one from steel and replaced the O-Rings with lip seals and the front shaft bush

 

[Tim O]

The whole pump body seems to be made of cast alloy. The two seals sit just inside the shaft tube.

Both sides of the wheel hub show signs of a battering!....presumably to remove the wheel at some point but wonder if that contributed to the play in the shaft

 

[rogerthebodger]

If you have play in the shaft you will need to rebush otherwise the O Ring seals will not seal correctly.

Hav a look if there is a removable bush then you may get one made at a local machine shop.

 

[Tim O]

If you have play in the shaft you will need to rebush otherwise the O Ring seals will not seal correctly.

Hav a look if there is a removable bush then you may get one made at a local machine shop.

where/how would I start looking for a removable bush Roger?

 

[rogerthebodger]

where/how would I start looking for a removable bush Roger?

Have a look at this thread

Wagner Hydraulic steering.

Post #7 shows a diagram of a similar pump Item

B1-B2 - Wagner Engineering Ltd.

Looking at all the Wagner pumps the shaft seal is a lip seal not an O ring.

The pump I referred to before was NOT a wagner but a Capilano

Have a look at the diagram and you will see the bush/bearing and lip seal.

I think the bigger pumps have a needle roller shaft bearing

This manual may also help in fixing your leak.

https://www.helmsmansystems.com/downloads/Parts Manual.pdf


I do hav a diagram of the A W pump but its on my boat 800Km away and we are in lockdown si cannot get to it.

 

[Tim O]

Thanks Roger....

I think I might try speaking to the folks at Helmsman Systems and see if they can shed any light on it. This is a pic of the Helm Pump Seal kit supplied by them thst came with the boat. The two O rings on the left are the ones I took out and replaced with identical. No idea what the other little rings are for!!! Will check that manual in detail.

 

[Old Harry]

I have a Wagner A W helm pump on my 33 foot ketch which has been leaking Slowly from the shaft Over the last year or so....eventually I tried replacing the shaft seals (two rubber o rings) with a replacement seal kit which came with the boat....checked the part numbers and seems to be the right one. I took out the two old seals and pushed the two new ones in...

simple right?

Except now it’s leaking worse than before!!!
There is a little bit of play in the shaft...maybe 2-3 mm in and out and 1mm up and down....this was like that before I touched the seals?

Any thoughts....?

best to lube up O rings wit Molykote 33 or similar before fitting

 

[rogerthebodger]

Thanks Roger....

I think I might try speaking to the folks at Helmsman Systems and see if they can shed any light on it. This is a pic of the Helm Pump Seal kit supplied by them thst came with the boat. The two O rings on the left are the ones I took out and replaced with identical. No idea what the other little rings are for!!! Will check that manual in detail.View attachment 92136View attachment 92136

Do you have any pics of whe pump and where you fitted those O rings. They do look different size.

I cannot read the invoice/packing note part numbers and description of all the parts.

 

[penberth3]

The whole pump body seems to be made of cast alloy. The two seals sit just inside the shaft tube.

Both sides of the wheel hub show signs of a battering!....presumably to remove the wheel at some point but wonder if that contributed to the play in the shaft



View attachment 92102

If that's the condition of the shaft its going to destroy any new seal.

 

[Mudisox]

Disconnect it and send it to Helmsman systems , let them do it properly. I have just had it done myself. Saves a lot of bother. it is just money.

 

[Tim O]

I’ve spoken to Helnsman and I may do this as they reckon they could turn it round in a week....incidentally what did you have done to yours, and how much money???!