HyDIME - The way for the future?

[LadyInBed]

The use of hydrogen directly injected into the fuel supply of one of the ferries, has now been funded by Innovate UK. The HyDIME project (Hydrogen Diesel Injection in a Marine Environment), which formally started on 1 August, has been granted £430,000 to design and integrate a hydrogen diesel dual fuel injection system. The 12-month project is intended to de-risk the technology, which will be globally unique during the life of the project.
See HERE

 

[rotrax]

The use of hydrogen directly injected into the fuel supply of one of the ferries, has now been funded by Innovate UK. The HyDIME project (Hydrogen Diesel Injection in a Marine Environment), which formally started on 1 August, has been granted £430,000 to design and integrate a hydrogen diesel dual fuel injection system. The 12-month project is intended to de-risk the technology, which will be globally unique during the life of the project.
See HERE

It is good to see a major polluter like diesel powered ships and ferries getting into ECO projects.

Last week while in Southampton water we sailed close to a Natural Gas powered car transporter and the new larger Portsmouth/IOW car ferries are Hybrid technology.

Of course, ECO technology existed long, long ago in the shape of sail only vessels.................................

 

[burgundyben]

Innovate UK also funded this company https://www.bowmanpower.com/ to marinise their ETC technology for use on ships.

 

[rotrax]

Innovate UK also funded this company https://www.bowmanpower.com/ to marinise their ETC technology for use on ships.

Near where I reside when not on board or in NZ hanging out with the Grandchildren is a mile long stretch of GWR, parallel with the road. The railway and trains can clearly be seen from the road when driving.

Earlier today I followed a long, heavily loaded goods train pulled by a single diesel engine.

There was a dense cloud of black particulate laden smoke coming from the exhaust vents on top of the loco. It got heavier then slightly lighter, but never ceased until it was out of sight. Unless we fix old generation stuff like this we are pissing into the wind as far as very low emissions go.

IMHO, of course.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There is no sensible way of producing hydrogen in bulk. Electrolysis is an inefficient waste of electricity and so most hydrogen comes from methane, which easier to handle and store.

 

[Kukri]

There is no sensible way of producing hydrogen in bulk. Electrolysis is an inefficient waste of electricity and so most hydrogen comes from methane, which easier to handle and store.

Exactly. This is a silly and pointless stunt.

 

[Kukri]

It is good to see a major polluter like diesel powered ships and ferries getting into ECO projects.

Last week while in Southampton water we sailed close to a Natural Gas powered car transporter and the new larger Portsmouth/IOW car ferries are Hybrid technology.

Of course, ECO technology existed long, long ago in the shape of sail only vessels.................................

‘Natural gas’ (methane, CH4) is no sort of improvement unless you are just a NIMBY.

The by-pass rate (% of fuel passing through the engine un-burned) is horrible and methane is a far worse greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

‘Natural gas’ (methane, CH4) is no sort of improvement unless you are just a NIMBY.

The by-pass rate (% of fuel passing through the engine un-burned) is horrible and methane is a far worse greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

There is one human activity that causes more pollution than ships, cars,planes and trucks put together. It is of course eating meat. Most of the forest clearing is for planting animal feed or grazing. Even gorillas don't eat meat other than a few termites. It is an incredibly wasteful form of nourishment that our bodies are not even designed for. Why do us humans keep walking round the subject and playing about with things like hydrogen ?

I'm trying to give it up. It's easier than giving up smoking

 

[DJE]

There is no sensible way of producing hydrogen in bulk. Electrolysis is an inefficient waste of electricity and so most hydrogen comes from methane, which easier to handle and store.

According to the OP's link there is a surplus of renewable energy on Orkney and

“Having invested in an electrolyser to generate hydrogen from Eday’s tidal and wind resources, EMEC has been exploring various opportunities to support the development of a hydrogen economy on the islands. The potential for developing hydrogen powered vessels is one of the most exciting prospects, particularly given the number of carbon-intensive inter-island ferries located here. We’re really excited to be part of this project to create a ferry run on a carbon neutral fuel.”

 

[DJE]

......the new larger Portsmouth/IOW car ferries are Hybrid technology.

Despite the large "Hybrid" logos on the side of Victoria of Wight the system boils down to some large batteries which allow them to shut down the diesel engines in port.

 

[Kukri]

Loganair are introducing electric aircraft on their Orkney routes.

If planes can use batteries, surely ferries can?

 

[Stemar]

Despite the large "Hybrid" logos on the side of Victoria of Wight the system boils down to some large batteries which allow them to shut down the diesel engines in port.

I rather thought that might be the case.

Hydrogen production from methane seems to me to be a daft way of producing a green fuel as it produces CO and CO2 and I agree that it probably doesn't make a lot of sense to burn fossil fuel to electrolyse water but, if you've got a surplus of electricity from wind or tidal power, it makes a lot of sense to use that surplus to produce hydrogen.

 

[LadyInBed]

but, if you've got a surplus of electricity from wind or tidal power, it makes a lot of sense to use that surplus to produce hydrogen.

As I understand it they have to throttle back on electricity production when it's windy because the underwater cables that transfer it to the mainland grid can't handle the capacity!
Using the surplus to produce hydrogen has got to be a winner.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

The use of hydrogen directly injected into the fuel supply of one of the ferries, has now been funded by Innovate UK. The HyDIME project (Hydrogen Diesel Injection in a Marine Environment), which formally started on 1 August, has been granted £430,000 to design and integrate a hydrogen diesel dual fuel injection system. The 12-month project is intended to de-risk the technology, which will be globally unique during the life of the project.
See HERE

Ok, but only a 20 to 30% reduction in diesel use... Thats not going to be enough. However I'm not sure how much real technical information can be gathered from an article that states hydrogen will be injected into the air-fuel mixture of a diesel engine...

 

[Kukri]

As I understand it they have to throttle back on electricity production when it's windy because the underwater cables that transfer it to the mainland grid can't handle the capacity!
Using the surplus to produce hydrogen has got to be a winner.

Long ago, Norsk Hydro used hydroelectric power to make ammonia and ammonium and potassium nitrate fertiliser, the process was first developed using an electric arc and then converted to the Haber process in the 1930s, but it was rendered uneconomical by the availability of cheap natural gas in the 1970s.

Ammonia is a reasonably practical way to store hydrogen.

 

[JumbleDuck]

According to the OP's link there is a surplus of renewable energy on Orkney ...

Yes, they've tried a whole series of schemes to get rid of it by producing hydrogen - the first Orkney hydrogen car is in the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh. It is still a terrible idea. They would be far greener to send their surplus electricity down the wires south than mess around with hydrogen. Which is inefficient to produce, inefficient to use and extremely difficult to store. Bah, humbug.

 

[JumbleDuck]

... if you've got a surplus of electricity from wind or tidal power, it makes a lot of sense to use that surplus to produce hydrogen.

It really doesn't. Unless, perhaps, every last watt of energy in the national grid is coming from renewable supplies, in which case you might as well throw your spare away. We are a long way away from that, though.

Electrolysis of water on any scale is generally about 80% efficient. Hydrogen fuel cells are around 50% efficient, if you're lucky and any sort of hydrogen-powered engine is even worse. So at the very best, the round trip from electricity to hydrogen and back loses around 60% of the energy you started with. The National Grid is about 92% efficient, so it's far, far, far better to sell the surplus electricity to someone else who wants it.

South-West Scotland produces far more renewable electricity than we use, though both the Galloway Hydros scheme and the windfarms which continue to spring up. When the hydros were built the main grid route from England to Glasgow was diverted away from Beattock (the M74's route) and through Galloway instead so that surplus power could be taken where it was needed.

 

[DJE]

Direct carbon capture looks like a better use of surplus renewable energy.
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/co...rbon-engineerings-ceo-commercialization-costs

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Yes, they've tried a whole series of schemes to get rid of it by producing hydrogen - the first Orkney hydrogen car is in the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh. It is still a terrible idea. They would be far greener to send their surplus electricity down the wires south than mess around with hydrogen. Which is inefficient to produce, inefficient to use and extremely difficult to store. Bah, humbug.

The wires are full.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Hydrogen fuel cells are around 50% efficient, if you're lucky

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360319918308371

The lowest value of the maximum efficiency is found to be 79.3%, 75.7%, and 82.1% for hydrogen-oxygen, hydrogen-air and methane-air fuel cells