Hunter Delta 25

[LP1]

Anyone got any experience with the twin keel version? I like the look of it, but can't find out much about them. Any opinions welcome. I've seen one I like the look of, but it's not a boat that I'd considered before.

Thanks.

 

[Seajet]

Quite a rare boat around here. I always got the impression they're a bit lightly built like that generation of Hunters seem to be - not brilliant at looking after crew in bouncy conditions but good performance to go places ; I think I have an original brochure at home but away from there at the moment, will try to find it later today.

What's the engine configuration ? An original inoard might be a bit long in the tooth now, while I don't think it had an outboard well ( memory ??? ) if so a transom hung outboard is a pain, though engine changes are easy.

Sail condition will be all important, a new main or genoa must be £1,000 each...

 

[Cloven]

Delta 25 Details

History
Built From: 1980
Built To: 1986
Number Built: 80 approx.
Designer: David Thomas
Specification
Length Over All (m): 7.45
Length at the water line (m): 6.16
Beam (m): 2.74
Draft (m): LK up 0.30 down 1.5, Fin 1.52, Twin 0.99
Air Draft (m):
Displacement - fin (kg): LK 1955 Fin 1750
Displacement - twin (kg): 1955
Ballast (kg):
Sail Areas (sq m): Main 13.4, No 1 Genoa 14.8, No 2 Genoa 9.6
Berths: 5
Engine: 5 HP O/B in well
Other Information
Reviews: PBO Dec 82
Remarks:

 

[LP1]

Thanks sea jet. Fairly new outboard in well, not transom hung. I was kind of interested to find out opinions/ problems to be aware of, as I have the hard stats on the class.

thanks again.

 

[Seajet]

As she has a well, check there's a fairing plug; don't know if you're used to wells but removing the engine & stowing it - is there a cockpit locker suitable is another check, if a 4 stroke it will require a particular stowage attitude - then fitting a fairing plug gives a great increase in passage speed, eliminates flotsam worry, corrosion & above all turbulence & noise.

She sounds quite a handy fast cruiser...

 

[JimC]

You might also like to look at the Hunter Horizon 26 which was a cruising development of the Delta using the same hull but with a different deck moulding and a more luxurious interior.

 

[ditchcrawler]

Ignore Seajet's comments about Hunters being lightly built.He tends to make generalised statements based on what a chum saw or heard.I owned 3 Hunters 23 to 27 ft and they were all strong capable boats.I also raced a Sonata in the Crouch in some pretty hairy weather and the boat coped admirably.I also went round the factory in Rochford and although the build is fairly basic they are good solid boats.About 50% of the boats (according to Peter Poland) were kit boats for home build but all of the structural work was done to the hull and the completion only involved fitting out.The Hunter fitting out is workmanlike and fairly basic.I had one boat a Hunter Pilot that had been fitted out to a standard far exceeding the factory fitted boats.You may be lucky to find one with a few extra goodies.

 

[yachtorion]

I've got a Horizon 26 which shares the same hull. I can see what Seajet is getting at with the light build - the layup isn't as thick as some of the older designs (the Anderson 22 for example ) but it's done with the benefit of more experience of the material and cleverer use of different fabrics. My 27 year old hull doesn't have a single sign of any issues on it at all and certainly no gel crazing caused by excess flexibility or over stress around chainplates and keels etc. The build quality is excellent.

If you aren't interested just in the racing / dinghy like performance but want a splash of comfort as well then the Horizon is probably worth a look. I picked mine up in scruffy condition for 9k.

 

[Seajet]

ditchcrawler,

please re-arrange these words in a well known phrase or saying; nothing talking you're know about you what.

I'm basing my comments re light construction on personal experience of the Hunter ranges by Oliver Lee and David Thomas, have a look at the rudder fittings on a Medina / Sonata compared to a Europa / 701.

True I did also hear from a couple of Anderson 22 owners that the handling of Medinas they'd had previously was poor.

I test sailed and thoroughly looked over a Horizon 27, at one stage when it seemed I couldn't get my A22 back, but it didn't appeal to me personally, and has even less appeal since the cases of the inner mouldings failing have been mentioned on here.

I have said that I think the Delta would make a good fast cruiser, I always thought one of the better Thomas examples.

Ignore ditchcrawler, he makes wild insulting claims about people he doesn't know...

 

[Cloven]

I am not getting involved in an argument. I just wish to say that over the past 30+ years I have had a Hunter Medina followed by a Hunter Horizon 272 (sugar scoop version of the 26) and now Hunter Channel 323. All have been superb boats, well built and have been capable of handling more than I can given the size of each etc. I sailed all three boats on the west coast of Scotland as far as the at the Hebrides without problems in all conditions up to F6 (Horizon 272 & Channel 323). I have no direct experience of the Delta but if it is built to the same standard as the others I would not question build quality.

I agree with the comments about the inner fit out. All three of mine have been kit boats but finished to a high standard.

 

[TSB240]

I always got the impression they're a bit lightly built like that generation of Hunters seem to be.

Ignore Seajet's comments about Hunters being lightly built.He tends to make generalised statements based on what a chum saw or heard.I owned 3 Hunters 23 to 27 ft and they were all strong capable boats.I also raced a Sonata in the Crouch in some pretty hairy weather and the boat coped admirably.I also went round the factory in Rochford and although the build is fairly basic they are good solid boats.About 50% of the boats (according to Peter Poland) were kit boats for home build but all of the structural work was done to the hull and the completion only involved fitting out.The Hunter fitting out is workmanlike and fairly basic.I had one boat a Hunter Pilot that had been fitted out to a standard far exceeding the factory fitted boats.You may be lucky to find one with a few extra goodies.

I've got a Horizon 26 which shares the same hull. The layup isn't as thick as some of the older designs (the Anderson 22 for example ) but it's done with the benefit of more experience of the material and cleverer use of different fabrics. My 27 year old hull doesn't have a single sign of any issues on it at all and certainly no gel crazing caused by excess flexibility or over stress around chainplates and keels etc. The build quality is excellent.
If you aren't interested just in the racing / dinghy like performance but want a splash of comfort as well then the Horizon is probably worth a look. I picked mine up in scruffy condition for 9k.

I'm basing my comments re light construction on personal experience of the Hunter ranges by Oliver Lee and David Thomas, have a look at the rudder fittings on a Medina / Sonata compared to a Europa / 701.

True I did also hear from a couple of Anderson 22 owners that the handling of Medinas they'd had previously was poor.

I test sailed and thoroughly looked over a Horizon 27, at one stage when it seemed I couldn't get my A22 back, but it didn't appeal to me personally, and has even less appeal since the cases of the inner mouldings failing have been mentioned on here.
.

We all know owners prejudice rules ok!

So are they lightly built?
Could a calculation something like displacement minus ballast divided by overall length create a comparison between boat builders that is independent of owners prejudice.

Our first fibreglass boat (1966) was built to the same standard as the admiralty required for lifeboats to survive wrecking on coral. Now that was heavily laid up built like a brick outhouse.

 

[Seajet]

FWIW I was thinking of fittings specified not just thickness of grp; as I mentioned I do not think a Thomas design such as a Sonata, Delta, Impala etc is the sort of boat to really look after a small crew in bad conditions, and this seems to be borne out by the small to zero amount of times one sees these boats cruising.

Thomas boats would be fine for most conditions working on the sprint theory of getting one to port before bad weather, which is certainly better than sitting and taking it in a plodder.

There are / have been in the 36 years I've been at my club, Medinas and Horizon 26's, and there was a large fleet of Sonata's at HISC, for round the cans racing.

I was told the Horizon 26 suffered from transom drag hence the revised stern on the 27, but that was Peter Poland telling me when we sailed the 27, what would he know ?

There were several cases with Horizon27's, reported on these forums, having the sole of the inner moulding break away from the vertical parts of the structure, which was a bit awkward.

The OP asked for general impressions and I gave them, I can think of a lot worse boats than recent Hunters.

BTW Anderson 22's are not crudely built at all, they do / did not just rely on thick grp.

Now with these reservations in mind I said I think a twin keel Delta could make a good fast cruiser...

 

[yachtorion]

FWIW I was thinking of fittings specified not just thickness of grp; as I mentioned I do not think a Thomas design such as a Sonata, Delta, Impala etc is the sort of boat to really look after a small crew in bad conditions, and this seems to be borne out by the small to zero amount of times one sees these boats cruising.

Thomas boats would be fine for most conditions working on the sprint theory of getting one to port before bad weather, which is certainly better than sitting and taking it in a plodder.

There are / have been in the 36 years I've been at my club, Medinas and Horizon 26's, and there was a large fleet of Sonata's at HISC, for round the cans racing.

I was told the Horizon 26 suffered from transom drag hence the revised stern on the 27, but that was Peter Poland telling me when we sailed the 27, what would he know ?

There were several cases with Horizon27's, reported on these forums, having the sole of the inner moulding break away from the vertical parts of the structure, which was a bit awkward.

The OP asked for general impressions and I gave them, I can think of a lot worse boats than recent Hunters.

BTW Anderson 22's are not crudely built at all, they do / did not just rely on thick grp.

Now with these reservations in mind I said I think a twin keel Delta could make a good fast cruiser...

Hi Seajet. I've tried search but failed to find the right combination of keywords. Do you happen to remember any of those threads please? I'd like to read up on what happened if only so I know what to look out for.

EDIT: Is this the thread? http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...oulding&highlight=delamination+inner+moulding

 

[yachtorion]

We all know owners prejudice rules ok!

So are they lightly built?
Could a calculation something like displacement minus ballast divided by overall length create a comparison between boat builders that is independent of owners prejudice.

No it couldn't because obviously it's more complicated than that (though particularly with boats designed at significantly different times). As construction techniques and materials evolved over time, so weight is not necessarily proportional to strength. Also, some builders and designers may have better abilities in this area than others.

Our first fibreglass boat (1966) was built to the same standard as the admiralty required for lifeboats to survive wrecking on coral. Now that was heavily laid up built like a brick outhouse.

Of course it's true owners are prejudiced, but there are a few things that can be taken as objective rather than subjective, in my post and in others.

In the case of my boat in particular, my 1987 Hunter 26 replaced a 1990 Hurley 22 earlier this year, I explored both of them extensively including removing all linings etc, so I feel I'm in a reasonable position to make a comparison between the two boats in terms of construction.

The H22 was definitely much more heavily constructed. It was also the boat I'd rather be caught out in a storm in, but that's because of it's displacement ratio and keel configuration, not build.

The hunter is much lighter built but much more intelligently than the thick layup on the hurley because it was designed much later. There is visible evidence of different types of fabric reinforcement in key places that wasn't present on the Hurley which just didn't need that due to the thickness used. So possibly lighter but no less stronger. There are zero signs of stress cracks or anything like in the gelcoat on the Hunter except around a badly installed transom ladder. The younger Hurley did have a few stress cracks. I haven't yet sailed the Hunter but I strongly suspect it's lighter weight and lower displacement ratio should lead to a faster and more fun boat for coastal cruising - which was part of the choice behind it.

So as ever it's up to what the OP wants

 

[johnphilip]

We enjoyed our Delta.

Bypassing those with only hearsay opinions of the Delta we did actually own one for 4 or 5 seasons. It was admittedly the more usual lift keel model. After the 19 ft Prelude we had before it was a very comfortable boat, slightly limited headroom however, and without the sophisticated cabin equipment of modern boats. She was a performer under sail and great fun. We sailed with two sons, then about 12 and 9 and felt pretty confident in her, no strength issues. I am sure she could have taken much more punishment than the crew could have tolerated. Our cruises included Harwich to Blankenberg and up through Holland.
The outboard well was to me her Achilles heel. Because the well was offset in the port cockpit locker sailing on Starboard tack threatened to drown the engine. We always therefore lifted the engine as soon as we could and fitted the plate that closed the bottom of the well, Ingeniously this incorporated a dinghy type self bailer to keep the well/locker reasonably dry. The engine was mounted on a vertically sliding board so to stow it you slid it up, tilted the engine aft to lie within the locker and slid the mounting board back down. It worked but was a pain and took a minute or so. We became very adept at sailing on and off the mooring. Do not be tempted to fit an oversize engine, you would regret it.
She is a sailing boat first and foremost and her performance was of course enhanced by not dragging a prop or a turbulent well.
Two Pics, racing before we owned her and probably almost 30 years later in 2012 when we spotted her sailing.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Ignore Seajet's comments about Hunters being lightly built.He tends to make generalised statements based on what a chum saw or heard.I owned 3 Hunters 23 to 27 ft and they were all strong capable boats.I also raced a Sonata in the Crouch in some pretty hairy weather and the boat coped admirably.I also went round the factory in Rochford and although the build is fairly basic they are good solid boats.About 50% of the boats (according to Peter Poland) were kit boats for home build but all of the structural work was done to the hull and the completion only involved fitting out.The Hunter fitting out is workmanlike and fairly basic.I had one boat a Hunter Pilot that had been fitted out to a standard far exceeding the factory fitted boats.You may be lucky to find one with a few extra goodies.

That is a good summary, but I might also be biased have sailed a Sonata on the Blackwater and the Crouch and as my first 'proper' boat was the successor to the Hunter 27 which - the Ranger 265.

 

[Seajet]

Hi Seajet. I've tried search but failed to find the right combination of keywords. Do you happen to remember any of those threads please? I'd like to read up on what happened if only so I know what to look out for.

EDIT: Is this the thread? http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...oulding&highlight=delamination+inner+moulding

yachtailsa,

that's it though there was another incident of the same a bit - few months ? - later.

Obviously tremendously and intelligently built then...

 

[LP1]

Some great advice and information, thanks everyone. I may be leaning towards the Hunter now as I prefer the layout and extra room. Good to have an inboard as well.

Thanks again.

 

[claymore]

We owned a Delta for a few years although it was the fin keeled version. Very good boat indeed. Sailed well, we were competitive against Boleros and Ruffians. The accommodation layout was good and we had standing headroom (I'm not very tall!)
The outboard in the well functioned nicely and could be lifted and tilted so with the plug in there was no drag. We sailed her across the Irish Sea, the Mulls of Galloway and Kintyre and around Skye and always felt she would take more than we could in terms of challenging conditions. Eventually we fitted a Yanmar 1 GM 10 which was a great improvement as we were undertaking longer trips.
The Delta is very manoeuvrable and had no bad habits that we found, a roller furling Genoa was also an improvement I would recommend.
Hope that helps.

 

[seumask]

We too owned a Delta and gave it 5 years of good family sailing up and down the channel. Lift keel version. IMHO a simply built boat that was very easy to maintain yourself, even with the complication of the Hydraulic lifting keel. A twin keel one would be even easier to look after and park. I would love to own one again and despite being worried about the outboard to start with, I came to love it as the previous owner said to me on purchase, you don't need the engine as she sails so well, unless there is no wind! This proved to be very true, often keeping up with or overtaking recent production yachts many feet longer.
Go for it.