Hull stopcock leaking in all positions after heads hose clean

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RIBW

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Yesterday, I removed my heads outlet hose and cleared it (using the bash on concrete dockside routine). When I reconnected the hose to the hull stopcock I noticed a small, continuous drip of water that I hadn't noticed when the cock was closed for hose removal. It seemed that the stopcock was leaking from the operating handle. The drip was there, in different amounts, whatever the position of the handle including the 'off' position.

The stop cock is not normally visible and is opened and closed by reaching into a cupboard so may have been leaking for ages but there was no sign of dampness in the immediate area.

All my skin fittings were renewed in 2013 by the previous owner as a condition of sale - I was given all the old ones, so I am reasonably sure the valve is 6 years old. I am pretty sure it is some variant of brass. It has been hard to operate since new so I added an extension to the handle years ago.

I had to leave the boat with this very occasional drip and can't return until Wednesday at the earliest. What should I do next?

All advice welcome

Cheers
Bob
 
An occasional drip in no problem in itself, but it may be a sign that the stopcock is in poor condition, especially as it is also hard to operate. I would want to change it. I changed all of my through hull fittings and ball valves for Tru Design glass reinforced nylon ones a few years ago and am very pleased with them. You do not say what kind of valve it is, but the only kind you should have are 90 degree turn ball valves, regardless of material. Gate valves, the sort of thing that need multiple turns to open or close have no place on a boat as they are prone to leakage and failure. Whatever you buy if replacing with metal, be sure that it is either bronze or DZR brass and properly marked as such. Far too many common brass fittings which are prone to dezincification have been sold for marine use by careless or unscrupulous sellers.
 
RIBW said:
Yesterday, I removed my heads outlet hose and cleared it (using the bash on concrete dockside routine). When I reconnected the hose to the hull stopcock I noticed a small, continuous drip of water that I hadn't noticed when the cock was closed for hose removal. It seemed that the stopcock was leaking from the operating handle. The drip was there, in different amounts, whatever the position of the handle including the 'off' position.

The stop cock is not normally visible and is opened and closed by reaching into a cupboard so may have been leaking for ages but there was no sign of dampness in the immediate area.

All my skin fittings were renewed in 2013 by the previous owner as a condition of sale - I was given all the old ones, so I am reasonably sure the valve is 6 years old. I am pretty sure it is some variant of brass. It has been hard to operate since new so I added an extension to the handle years ago.

I had to leave the boat with this very occasional drip and can't return until Wednesday at the earliest. What should I do next?

All advice welcome

Cheers
Bob
Click to expand...

If it is 6 years old and brass then I would change it, and any others of the same type, including the skin fittings if you don't know what they are made of. Use DZR material ones from ASAP and only use bronze if you can trust the grade of bronze quoted by the supplier (some materials with "bronze" in the name are actually a grade of brass and not good in seawater).

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
Change it. If its a gate valve (wheel handle), sooner the better, because the valve is on the way out and will soon fail altogether.

Heads outlet stopcocks go sooner than others, specially if brass. Six years is quite common.

If the skin fitting is sound and firm, it is quite possible to change the stopcock while afloat. You will first need to knock in a bung from the outside though!
 
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As the type of valve seems critical to the feedback, I have sought out the PO's invoices.

The 3 skin fittings and valves are quoted as DZR Bronze - they are all quarter turn. The invoice was for €370 in April 2013.
The other two valves (heads inlet and engine raw water cooling are not leaking

Cheers
Bob
 
RIBW said:
As the type of valve seems critical to the feedback, I have sought out the PO's invoices.

The 3 skin fittings and valves are quoted as DZR Bronze - they are all quarter turn. The invoice was for €370 in April 2013.
The other two valves (heads inlet and engine raw water cooling are not leaking

Cheers
Bob
Click to expand...

Something odd there. 'DZR bronze' does not exist. DZR brass as supplied by ASAP is good, same material all through. Some bronze valves have brass internal parts, so check before buying.
 
Thanks everyone,

I've had a look at the previous valve (1/4 turn ball - marked PN40 - CR - DN40). It has a gland nut and, presumably there is packing behind that. Hopefully a small tweak on the installed valve will stop the leak. Failing that, its a lift out and a new valve I guess.

Cheers
Bob
 
Why a lift out for a dripping valve?
As said before, push a bung in from underside and change the valve while afloat. Then if you want to, you can change the skin fitting at the next lift out at your convenience.
 
RIBW said:
Thanks everyone,

I've had a look at the previous valve (1/4 turn ball - marked PN40 - CR - DN40). It has a gland nut and, presumably there is packing behind that. Hopefully a small tweak on the installed valve will stop the leak. Failing that, its a lift out and a new valve I guess.

Cheers
Bob
Click to expand...

The CR tells you it is DZR brass.
 
greeny said:
Why a lift out for a dripping valve?
As said before, push a bung in from underside and change the valve while afloat. Then if you want to, you can change the skin fitting at the next lift out at your convenience.
Click to expand...

In my (limited) experience of trying to remove valves from skin fittings ... trying to unscrew the valve from the fitting almost always results in the fitting rotating. Attempts to hold onto it and prevent it rotating in a tight space usually fail. If the fitting has suffered de-zincification, it will probably snap off anyway, mine did. It is usually better to just grind off the fitting and replace the whole stack. If you can dry out on piles, then it is simple enough to do between tides.

If you are lucky enough to be able to unscrew the valve then yes, sealing the outside of the fitting will work a treat, but in practice, it is not often practicable.
 
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As part of my monthly routine I open and close half a dozen times all valves, including those not through the hull.
Problem with any valve is if it left unmoved, scales up, gets barnacles, weed growth etc and eventually seizes.
If a valve gets progressively stiffer over a few months it goes on the list to replace when next out of the water.
I don’t want it to fail when I need it
 
I’m just not convinced there’s a problem with the valve.

The only change you have made is taken out an old hose, beaten it up, and tried to put an old stiff battered hose back on cleanly. And it drips now. That drip appears to come from the lever fitting below where the pipe is reattached.

Before changing the fitting I’d close the seacock, take the hose off, dry the fitting and then watch it for leaks. If it really is dripping you will see that. If it doesn’t then you can either reattach the pipe with more jubilee clips and sealant or better put some nice new clean smelling pipe in.
 
vyv_cox said:
The CR tells you it is DZR brass.
Click to expand...

Thanks Vyv,
You prompted me to google for DN and PN. It seems, in my non-specialist speak, that DN40 is an approximation of Nominal Diameter and refers to 1½". PN seems to refer to pressure but and is a loose version of DN.
As I've said in previous forum posts - I'm glad I was brought up the electrical world where volts are volts and amps are amps!
Cheers
Bob
 
greeny said:
Why a lift out for a dripping valve? As said before, push a bung in from underside and change the valve while afloat. ......
Click to expand...

First my non-serious reply : If you are a true 'greeny' (i.e. an ex-RN electrician), then you have forgotten the first rule of signing on - never end up in the water - if you do you have made a mistake (or taken a diving adqual).

Secondly a very serious reply: Despite my old age, I am the only (almost) fully fit person left in my family and a few people depend on me staying that way. If the choice is diving under the boat (not allowed in my berth's Ts & Cs anyway) or a phone call to a nearby boatyard to do a cold move and sort it, the way forward needs no second thought.

Thanks for the thought anyway.
Cheers
Bob
 
Rocksteadee said:
....Problem with any valve is if it left unmoved, scales up, gets barnacles, weed growth etc and eventually seizes.
If a valve gets progressively stiffer over a few months it goes on the list to replace when next out of the water......
Click to expand...
Hi,
The valve in question has been stiff from new and hasn't worsened over the years. It has been operated at least monthly summer and winter over the six years - the boat is in the water all year.

Thanks for the thought.

Cheers
Bob
 
RupertW said:
I’m just not convinced there’s a problem with the valve. The only change you have made is taken out an old hose, beaten it up, and tried to put an old stiff battered hose back on cleanly. And it drips now. That drip appears to come from the lever fitting below where the pipe is reattached. Before changing the fitting I’d close the seacock, take the hose off, dry the fitting and then watch it for leaks. If it really is dripping you will see that. If it doesn’t then you can either reattach the pipe with more jubilee clips and sealant or better put some nice new clean smelling pipe in.
Click to expand...

Rupert,
Agreed.

I'll do that before tightening, if necessary, the gland nut. I'm already double clipped but maybe.....

Cheers
Bob
 
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