Hull shape how aware are you ?

This is very interesting.

As some of you know we are looking to buy our first boat at the moment and seaworthiness is critical for us - the boat would end up being sold if she doesn't handle well at sea. Accommodation is important too but the boat must balance both.

My comments below are just my views and hopefully not offensive!

What I've learned so far:

1. IPS drives require a flatter aft hull section to mount them so that's out due to seaworthiness and potential reliability concerns. A breakdown at sea would be very scary and berthing with one engine / drive.....

2. Resin infusion can make a boat light and I question whether a lighter boat is as seaworthy as a heavier one of the same length.

Also speaking to a main dealer for one of the big 3 in Scotland, he was very sceptical about IPS drives saying that no-one here has any experience servicing them.

For the above reasons we're probably going for a heavier boat on shafts, so Targa 47 if we go boating in the Med (having discounted V48 Open due to IPS drives and lack of torque) or a V52 if we decide to keep the boat in Scotland. At risk of thread drift, we are debating whether it's better to keep the boat near home at Kip or Largs, or to keep the boat in Mallorca.
 
ROW said:
This is very interesting.

As some of you know we are looking to buy our first boat at the moment and seaworthiness is critical for us - the boat would end up being sold if she doesn't handle well at sea. Accommodation is important too but the boat must balance both.

My comments below are just my views and hopefully not offensive!

What I've learned so far:

1. IPS drives require a flatter aft hull section to mount them so that's out due to seaworthiness and potential reliability concerns. A breakdown at sea would be very scary and berthing with one engine / drive.....

2. Resin infusion can make a boat light and I question whether a lighter boat is as seaworthy as a heavier one of the same length.

Also speaking to a main dealer for one of the big 3 in Scotland, he was very sceptical about IPS drives saying that no-one here has any experience servicing them.

For the above reasons we're probably going for a heavier boat on shafts, so Targa 47 if we go boating in the Med (having discounted V48 Open due to IPS drives and lack of torque) or a V52 if we decide to keep the boat in Scotland. At risk of thread drift, we are debating whether it's better to keep the boat near home at Kip or Largs, or to keep the boat in Mallorca.
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Ah, the pleasure of having too many choices. We suffered from that when buying a house, we knew what country just not where, what followed was a long but very pleasurable search and am very happy with where we ended up and also my choice of boat. If you have experience (and from the boats you are considering I assume you do) then IPS is not necessary, then again it's said to be worth fifteen years of experience. Your Volvo service will be done by your local dealer. I'd be surprised if he said he didn't know how to service IPS drives. I have a single engine shaft but wouldn't rule anything out (except outdrives of course) but some here won't touch anything that didn't come as standard issue on the ark. Including engines which have to come two by two
 
I'm interested in this subject & would like to learn more.

We are interested in an Elling E3/E4, but how can we learn the way to spot a good seaworthy hull?
 
I know the formula for hull speed (1.34 x square root waterline length) but is there a formula for plaing speed?
When we bought our boat it had to be a planing hull because we wanted a decent speed. A displacement or semi displacement was not considered. Equally an aft cabin was essential so it was a balance overall.
 
Portofino said:
I think the opening narrative is the main conclusion

"Whether your boat has a large engine or a small one, one bunk or a dozen cabins, a gourmet galley or a one-burner stove, there is nothing — absolutely nothing — that will make as much difference to your boating pleasure as the design of your hull."
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It may be the main conclusion, but for most people, it's fundamentally incorrect.

If you've got your fifty footer moored in Palma, the fact that your two kids have seperate cabins rather than squabbling in the single cabin of a boat that performs marginally better in the force 6 head sea you'll never go out in may make far more difference to your boating pleasure than the design of your hull

The fact that your wife prefers a galley up layout because she feels seasick in a galley down layout may be crucial to whether she wants to come boating at all so that trumps the nth degree of deadrise.

It's probably high on the list for the guy buying the Seaward 42, or an owner of a Botnia Targa, but for your average family boater, provided the boat offers an acceptable ride, there are probably far more important things that influence the buying decision.

As for boat show stands hiding the hulls - I don't think that's anything sinister. How confident would people be walking around this stand if all the boats were exposed balancing on exposed scaffolding or whatever's holding them up?
 

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Portofino said:
I think the opening narrative is the main conclusion

"Whether your boat has a large engine or a small one, one bunk or a dozen cabins, a gourmet galley or a one-burner stove, there is nothing — absolutely nothing — that will make as much difference to your boating pleasure as the design of your hull."
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Funny you should mention it, because that's the first (not the only, anyway) statement of that article I don't agree with.
I mean, if "boating pleasure" would be mostly driven by onboard comfort and seakeeping, everybody should choose a stabilized displacement hull - and possibly built in timber, because that also affects comfort in more ways than one.
And I'm not saying this because that's the kind of boat I've been cruising with for this whole millennium: just talk with anybody who spent the whole life at sea, day in and day out, and they will tell you on which boat they would rather be out there.

Otoh, I'm considering to change a boat like that with a planing one, with a relatively flat hull (as most f/b have), no stabs, and - heaven forbid - frozen snot construction.
Why? Because for my kind of boating, the hull design is NOT what makes most difference to my boating pleasure. At least, not anymore.
Of course, the writer of that article is free to think that having a gourmet galley or a one-burner stove is irrelevant for boating pleasure, and he can make a joke out of it if he wants.
But 'fiuaskme, he's just someone who should rather get a life.
Just ask MYAG if the grilled fresh prawns and other excellent stuff we had onboard affected our boating pleasure or not.... :cool:

PS: I had a phone call while writing my post, and I didn't see ari last comment before posting mine. Fwiw, I fully agree with what he said!
 
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I think we can put the issue to bed by accepting that there is a science to hull design and then there is practical usage of the product. In cars (I know risky metaphor) we can have almost perfect F1 style aerodynamics, yet for most people's usage a people carrier is best, while a Jeremy Clarkson type will want a Ferrari. I think for most it's a family car that can shift a bit down the road. I.e. A floating caravan that is pretty good in a nasty chop.
 
ari said:
It may be the main conclusion, but for most people, it's fundamentally incorrect.
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That's the point --- raise awareness ,not suppress it get hull form out in the open so they can make a more informed decision.
Sure every bodies got differing needs ,which are fluid and of course certain practicle aspects will have a greater or lesser influence .

As you can see with ROW ,he,s having a think about hull form ,using it to eliminate candidates .Chapeau to him for even looking deeper into manufactoring --Kg etc ,Bulid quality .

If you don,t plan on using a decent size out much at sea ,then hull form quite rightly will drop down (,even it was on MapishM list not sure by the sounds of things ?) superseded as you say by many practicle issues ,a few you listed .

There are many on here who boat ,or plan on boating in and around the 20-30 ft sector ,who wish to go touring .
As the L reduces the accomodation choises decrease a
Eg there's no galley up /down trap to fall into in a 27 Ft Amercan single engined sports boat .
How ever hull form has to be right up there on "enjoyment " factor .

Ribs , who said 50 ftrs in Mallorca ? ---- there's only one thing to really look at ( outside the outboards ) its staring you in the face at the stern ,the degree of deadrise .But we need a rib person to comment ps

You see iam trying to be inclusive here .

Sure a guy with a 90 ftr , summer cruising yacht /cum luxurious 2nd home will be I suspect overloaded with buying decisions .
Hull shape low down in the mix as the "Mrs influences " ( if we can can call them that ?) I suspect greater ?

How ever Pershing for example +++ many more others can give you a decent hull .Its all just scaled up .Same principles

But what are they and how do you spot them ??

Recently I was talking to the Skipper of a Pershing 108 ,who's owner had come from a line of Sunseeker Predators ,last one a 108 .
He left SS because of the ride ?

So on one hand we a poster saying a guy changed between two of the Uk brands because of the colour of the wood ,
On the other I have a guy ( Swiss guy BTW :) ) changing brands for the ride /hull shape .The Pershing is just soooooo much smoother @ 40 Knots , and of course @ lower speeds .Gyro stabs btw --both were .

Sunseeker could only do it "sea state permitting " ----- so folks do think about it .

Btw it has enhanced the enjoyment --- got a delicate wife like me .
 
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Bouba said:
I think we can put the issue to bed by accepting that there is a science to hull design and then there is practical usage of the product. In cars (I know risky metaphor) we can have almost perfect F1 style aerodynamics, yet for most people's usage a people carrier is best, while a Jeremy Clarkson type will want a Ferrari. I think for most it's a family car that can shift a bit down the road. I.e. A floating caravan that is pretty good in a nasty chop.
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Yes it a risky metaphor --- thing is we know that a F1 needs an engine rebuild every 200 miles so you would not get one to do a long drive to Bejing .
That's the point we can and do evaluate stuff if we are armed with the right info .

The Hull is not an insignificant part ,to be literary ( for what ever reason ? ) swept under the carpet @ boat shows .
 
Well, of course the prawns alone don't cut the mustard, so to speak.
It's rather a combination of factors, but if I should summarize the most important ones and put them in order of importance, my very personal ranking would be as follows.
1) human: quality of onboard company;
2) environmental: glorious sunshine/beautiful bays/crystal clear waters;
3) gastronomic: quality of the prawns (or sea urchins, snappers, scallops, whatever) - obviously paired with proper wine! :encouragement:
4) technical: a decent boat, reliable and comfortable enough.

Bottom line, would I consider a boat like Wanderbird (just google for her if you are curious) with her magnificent hull and a construction which can put to shame Nordhavn, Flemings, etc., if my pockets would be deep enough? Hell, yeah.
But do I need something like that to enjoy 1 to 3 above? Not even remotely - thanks God! :)
 
Bouba said:
I had always wondered why they do put a skirt on the hulls at boat shows. I thought perhaps it's to hide their proprietary secrets from fellow exhibitors. Perhaps to show what it looks like on the water, maybe even to cover up a hull that's been in the water so is no longer perfect and shiny. But to stop people, with preconceived ideas, from turning away before they can get your details and charm your spouse with the interior is brilliant. I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, this could be the reason.
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I'd always assumed it was to hide a grotty but competent cradle or props rather than any part of the boat?
 
MYAG said:
I'm with MapisM in all this Porto. I don't understand what your point is here or what you are trying to compare.
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I think the point is that we all end up agreeing that Itama make the best hull ever;)
 
I think the question is an interesting one but should be understood as 'how important is hull shape in your choice of boat?'

We all tend to be quite poor at both knowing what we want and admitting it to ourselves. For example, I believe I want a boat that will slice through the rough stuff at 40 knots, but I buy a f/b cruiser with four cabins.

In another context: heart says 911GT3RS; head says Cayenne - tell you what, I'll get the Cayenne Turbo S and that'll cover all the bases, won't it?

Hull shape may be #1 for you (no-one in particular, that is to say): in which case you would want to understand what works best for what you need to do. If it's #12 in my list, I'll read a review or two and reinforce my pre-existing belief that the one with the great cabin arrangement will, basically, not sink if there's a wave or two.
 
benjenbav said:
I think the question is an interesting one but should be understood as 'how important is hull shape in your choice of boat?'
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I don't even think its the most important consideration when thinking about a boat that's comfortable in a seaway. For me, more important than a sharp hull on a cruising boat is helm ergonomics. You can have the best hull in the world but if you can't see out of the front screen or you can't sit comfortably or you can't comfortably get to the important controls whilst the boat is bouncing about, its useless. So for me, requirement no 1 is a comfortable supportive helm seat from where I have a good view forward, sideways and if possible, astern and the boat has a good set of wipers and washers. Requirement no 2 is that I can reach the throttles, autopilot and plotter/radar controls from that helm seat without stretching too far. Also I think it's important for crew morale and the state of mind of the skipper if things aren't flying about inside the boat so lockers, cupboards, fridges etc have to have proper mechanical catches rather than magnetic ones and the interior of the boat doesn't feel like its going to fall apart when the boat hits the next wave. If all these things are present and correct then I'll start thinking whether my boat ought to have a few degrees more V in the hull or not
 
Deleted User said:
I don't even think its the most important consideration when thinking about a boat that's comfortable in a seaway. For me, more important than a sharp hull on a cruising boat is helm ergonomics. You can have the best hull in the world but if you can't see out of the front screen or you can't sit comfortably or you can't comfortably get to the important controls whilst the boat is bouncing about, its useless. So for me, requirement no 1 is a comfortable supportive helm seat from where I have a good view forward, sideways and if possible, astern and the boat has a good set of wipers and washers. Requirement no 2 is that I can reach the throttles, autopilot and plotter/radar controls from that helm seat without stretching too far. Also I think it's important for crew morale and the state of mind of the skipper if things aren't flying about inside the boat so lockers, cupboards, fridges etc have to have proper mechanical catches rather than magnetic ones and the interior of the boat doesn't feel like its going to fall apart when the boat hits the next wave. If all these things are present and correct then I'll start thinking whether my boat ought to have a few degrees more V in the hull or not
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+1.
Have been on some boats with the most appalling visiblity from the helm and with my knees jammed against the structure in front of you and fairly vital instruments fitted so far away it is short walk to get to them.
 
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