Hr 352 steering/rudder

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pandos

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I wonder has anyone taken off the rudder in a hr352.

On Thursday I took off the steering cables and sheaves to discover that two of them were seized so that explained the stiff steering last season...

But with the rudder now free to turn easily when I was leaving the boat, almost at darkness, I pushed the rudder to it's endstops and discovered that it turned substantially more to port than to starboard...

I went back on board and checked, the quadrant seems to be keyed into the shaft and swings freely with the shaft to bounce off the endstops on both sides, which means the rudder is not aligned with the quadrant.

This might explain my issues with the auto pilot last year when it seemed the rudder alignment was varying....(I ruled this out after checking as far as the quadrant but of course there is a joint below this point that I had never considered)

My understanding is that the shaft is keyed and tapered into the rudder so either the key is missing
Or broken, or has corroded so that it is no longer effective.

Given the above is there any other conceivable explanation.

There are a few guides on line of how to remove the rudder and this key seems to be a problem in achieving a removal...

My hope is that someone has experience of takng off the rudder and of actually encountering the key and can say how they dealt with it.

I have the large nut exposed but due to lockdown it will be month before I get back to it..

Could it be that some clown in the past removed the rudder nd simply relied on the taper and pressure to maintain steerage...? (I once lost all way because a similar clown fitted a prop without a key)
 
I've not heard of a rudder stock keyed into the rudder. Normal is definitely one piece with bits welded on that are trapped by the blade halves, and if there's a break in the shaft for a non-removable heel on a skeg then that's a fairly agricultural pair of bolted together flanges.

Are you sure it's not that the stops are not fitted symmetrically?
 
anoccasionalyachtsman said:
I've not heard of a rudder stock keyed into the rudder. Normal is definitely one piece with bits welded on that are trapped by the blade halves, and if there's a break in the shaft for a non-removable heel on a skeg then that's a fairly agricultural pair of bolted together flanges.

Are you sure it's not that the stops are not fitted symmetrically?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply but...
there is no doubt about my description of the correct arrangement on these particular boats. There are many instructions on line as well as Hallberg Rassy's instructions.

The stops are symmetrical.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw2D3wNiAMwMIao8YnkxrrwY
Screenshot_20210102-155952.png
 
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As you've said, the rudder shaft is tapered and keyed into the upper rudder fitting. I believe the key is bronze (like the shaft and the fitting) so I wouldn't expect it to have corroded. Removing the rudder isn't a particularly easy job, and if I were you I'd want to check other things first.

First, I'd take the quadrant off the shaft and double-check the key there. This should be fairly easy as (assuming it's like the one I had on my HR352) the quadrant is just bolted around the shaft. If you're certain that the quadrant can't rotate on the shaft, then your theory that someone might have replaced the rudder without the key in the tapered end would need checking.

There are guides online to help (especially on the HR website), but it's not likely to be easy and it's certainly at least a 2-man job. Thankfully, I never had to do it in the 20 years or so that I had my 352. Let us know how things progress.
 
The quadrant key is visible albeit with difficulty and it appears rusted, and when the quadrant the key way if on the centerline the quadrant is equidistant from the end stops.

On reflection, I will fit the emergency tiller, to hold the upper end , and see if I can move the rudder on the shaft, this should clarify things.

If the quadrant key is indeed rusted it suggests a steel one was fitted at some stage in the past, this could well have been the case in the lower joint where in seawater it may not have lasted so we'll...

Certainly glad I discovered this, as if I am correct, it would have been a potentially catestrophic loss of steering...
 
Hi, I seem to have exactly the same problem. I also discovered it during an autopilot calibration. What was the problem in the end ( end solution!?)

Much appreciated.
 
deepocean said:
Hi, I seem to have exactly the same problem. I also discovered it during an autopilot calibration. What was the problem in the end ( end solution!?)

Much appreciated.
Click to expand...
In the end I changed the pin in the lower hinge/bearing. Which had been showing some wear.

Also the sheaves in the engine bay had become very stiff on their bearings.

I moved one of the rudder stops so that the rudder can move the same amount on both sides.

When the new cables had stretched and bedded in steering seemed became much better...until then it was a nightmare. (Either a Sloppy rudder or else it was too tight.)

Whilst the work was completed in 2021 I haven't sailed the boat very far since due to health issues last year mast issues, which I think we resolved today.

Send me a private message if you have any particular questions.
 
Hi Thanks.

I wish you swift recovery and reply. Seems that I do not have enough rights yet to sent Private Messages.

Not 100% sure if I understand. I understand that you solved (worked around) the misaligned quadrant was by relocating the rudder stops?

Again, much appreciated!
 
My quadrant was not misaligned. It just appeared to be so, as the rudder was not centered on the boat, when it was centered between the stops. The reason being that the stops were not located symmetrically.
 
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