Wansworth
Well-Known Member
The dutch girl was on the main news today,in Spain, country that has 30 year olds living at home and you need guidance and help least you hurt yourself(EXCEPT BULLFIGHTING) so must be totally unbelievable!
How to stop a little girl from going RTW
- Thread starter WayneS
- Start date
& yet you went off the deep end in another thread when I suggested that Mike Parham was just a spoilt brat,split personality?
cliffordpope
Well-Known Member
There surely must be a compulsory limit somewhere on what children are allowed to do, with or without their parents' permission?
Motor racing
Space travel
Bare knuckle prize fighting
Coal mining
Bomb disposal
Prostitution ?
Does the childs' willingness/ability come into it?
Motor racing
Space travel
Bare knuckle prize fighting
Coal mining
Bomb disposal
Prostitution ?
Does the childs' willingness/ability come into it?
lenseman
Well-Known Member
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- 3 Jun 2006
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- Location
- South East Coast - United Kingdom
As Dyflin states, I can see her going out one Saturday for a days sail locally with all intent on returning but carrying 9 months or so victuals and enough charts, just in case she is blown off course for a return to Holland!
curve
Well-Known Member
Surely the most pressing concern is how she would cope when she enters a port. Will she be chaperoned? Or left to her own devices?
BurnitBlue
Well-Known Member
The whole point of this sort of stunt is to involve the media to gain fame. A climber would scale a mountain if he was the only person left alive because it would be a personal achievement. A stunt sailor feeds off attention. The media are more necessary to this type of stunt than anything else.
There is a very large gap between the percieved risk and the actual risk of a circumnavigation. The public are still under the impression that sailing a small yacht on the ocean is extremely dangerous. It isn't. The early circumnavigators were even knighted. Sir Frances Chichester, Sir Alec Rose, Sir Robin Knox-Johnson, Sir Chay Blythe, Dame Naomi James, Dame Ellen. Have I missed any? Sailing a boat round the world for a younger, older, disabled record stunt is the easiest and quickest way to gain fame, especially with today's boats and electronic navigation systems.
One day the media will cotton on to the fact that very few, if any, of these sailing stunts end in a fatal tragedy. They certainly do not deserve the kudos handed out by the media. It is more dangerous to drive a vehicle round the world than sail round.
The people who enter these stunts use this misconception of actual risk to gain an advantage and a shortcut to fame and riches.
I think this stupidity will only end when a two year old is strapped into a capsule. Secured below in the cabin, then sailed by remote control via autopilot and GPS with instructions from a sick fame hungry parent.
RIB_imposter
Well-Known Member
As I understand it the concern is that a thirteen year old in isolation for 2 years (her planned voyage time) will go on to have problems with social/relationship development as she gets older. I suspect if there was a story about parents keeping a child in the basement alone for two years, even if that is what she said she wanted - then everyone here would be criticising them for neglect.
tokenjam
Well-Known Member
I think this stupidity will only end when a two year old is strapped into a capsule. Secured below in the cabin, then sailed by remote control via autopilot and GPS with instructions from a sick fame hungry parent.[/QUOTE]
Blimey, I think you may have hit on something there I can think of a few children to nominate
Blimey, I think you may have hit on something there
I can think of a few children to nominateLawsy
Well-Known Member
Am I missing something here, but shouldn't 13 year olds in a civilized country like the Netherlands be in school, apart from during officially sanctioned school holidays? Thus, whether a RWT would be the greatest learning experience ever (could she not get that during a Dutch equivalent of a gap-year?); being done for publicity; being done because she is a competent sailor who wants to push herself; etc, is surely irrelevant?
Wunja
Well-Known Member
It seems there are different versions of this part of the story going around. I heard the above on radio 4, but the version I heard over here was that her father picked her up, put her on the boat and waved goodbye.
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JasonClark
N/A
if she is capable enough then fine let her do what she wants, if she dies in the process then who really cares "her parents" do, so it be on there heads says I.
I've had enough of this nanny state business its about time people started to do and feel what they need to do without feeling "Governed" the whole time.
I've had enough of this nanny state business its about time people started to do and feel what they need to do without feeling "Governed" the whole time.
RIB_imposter
Well-Known Member
Only if she's actually in the country - which she wouldn't actually be! So e.g. her parents could send her to stay with relatives in the UK and then she wouldn't be expected at Dutch School (but would be expected here). Then there are possibilities like "home schooling" where the parents could teach her themselves, and she would follow the Dutch curriculum and still be a resident of the Netherlands. I expect if they were going with her then this would not be a problem - she would be "home schooled" afloat - and it would be acceptable (as I believe it would if she was British).
JasonClark
N/A
Good point, i have never been to grammer school but i have met the scholars. I firmly believe that a good RTW trip would serve more to this girls education than any school or schooling could ever do. Maths = Geographical navigation etc i bet her class mates could not even navigate themselves to the other side of playground.
I reckon she should be allowed to go, as long as the parents can show enough money on the table to pay for a helicopter and full blown rescue should she get into trouble.
T
timbartlett
Guest
IIRC, Robin (?) Graham wasn't much older when he set off in a similar sized boat sometime in the sixties.
Dare I suggest that the officials involved cannot know the girl as well as her parents do, and probably know little (if anything) boats, sailing, the sea, or the experience that might lie ahead of her if she were allowed to go.
In other words, they are spectacularly badly qualified to exercise any kind of informed judgement.
Dare I suggest that the officials involved cannot know the girl as well as her parents do, and probably know little (if anything) boats, sailing, the sea, or the experience that might lie ahead of her if she were allowed to go.
In other words, they are spectacularly badly qualified to exercise any kind of informed judgement.
tcm
...
I agree. It just "sounds wrong" in these much more nannying times. Also, a bit secretly, I think libby purves a bit of a wuss, and very keen on nannying. BBC innit.
Bajansailor
Well-Known Member
Here is a nice article about Robin Graham and his wee boat Dove :
http://www.bluemoment.com/dove.html
OK, he was 16 when he set off, but back then he didnt have any GPS, SSB, SatCom, AIS, probably not even VHF.
And there were probably many folk then who lambasted his parents for being so terrible in allowing their boy to go off sailing across an ocean....
But he did it, and I think he did it because he wanted to do it - I doubt that he had any desire when he set off to chase a record.
(OK, later on he got very dis-illusioned about it all, and just carried on in order to achieve a record - and keep his parents and later sponsors happy......)
This young Dutch girl is 'only' 13 or thereabouts, but I am sure that she is in many ways much more capable and competent and 'at home' on a small well-found sailing boat than many average male singlehanders.
It speaks volumes when after being stopped in Britain, she apparently then returns home - across the North Sea, singlehanded, under sail.
Re how she would cope in different ports - Tania Aebi managed ok in her Contessa 26 on her singlehanded voyage around the world in the early 1980's. OK, she was 18 when she set off, but I get the impression that she was far less prepared for what lay ahead than our Dutch girl.
Tania didnt really have a clue about navigation and she basically just learnt as she went along. She freely admits to this in her excellent book - where she also mentions that she sailed most of the way around the world getting a full 7 or 8 hours solid sleep every night, leaving the wind vane to keep watch.....
A pal of mine grew up on various boats that her parents owned - her first transatlantic was at -6 months (she was born here after they arrived) and the next was 12 years later. When she was 13 her folks were running a charter company in the BVIs, and they used to allow her to borrow charter boats to go off sailing around the islands on with a couple of pals of similar age.
OK, this was the early 70's, and she wasn't single handed, and this was in the BVIs, but there were still nods (and probably howls) of dis-approval then by many folk re how her parents could allow her to do this. I know that if she had had the opportunity then that this Dutch girl had, she would have jumped at it then, absolutely!
And I am sure that she would have accomplished whatever she set out to do, without fanfare, simply because she wanted to do it. It might not have been a round the world voyage - she might have 'just' done a passage to somewhere else and then realised she didnt want to carry on, or she may have crossed an ocean.
But I doubt she would have been detained / arrested on arrival back then at her first landfall (like the Dutch girl experienced in England), simply because people in authority had determined in their wisdom that this was in her best interest as being at sea was a dangerous and fool hardy thing for a 13 year old to be doing.
http://www.bluemoment.com/dove.html
OK, he was 16 when he set off, but back then he didnt have any GPS, SSB, SatCom, AIS, probably not even VHF.
And there were probably many folk then who lambasted his parents for being so terrible in allowing their boy to go off sailing across an ocean....
But he did it, and I think he did it because he wanted to do it - I doubt that he had any desire when he set off to chase a record.
(OK, later on he got very dis-illusioned about it all, and just carried on in order to achieve a record - and keep his parents and later sponsors happy......)
This young Dutch girl is 'only' 13 or thereabouts, but I am sure that she is in many ways much more capable and competent and 'at home' on a small well-found sailing boat than many average male singlehanders.
It speaks volumes when after being stopped in Britain, she apparently then returns home - across the North Sea, singlehanded, under sail.
Re how she would cope in different ports - Tania Aebi managed ok in her Contessa 26 on her singlehanded voyage around the world in the early 1980's. OK, she was 18 when she set off, but I get the impression that she was far less prepared for what lay ahead than our Dutch girl.
Tania didnt really have a clue about navigation and she basically just learnt as she went along. She freely admits to this in her excellent book - where she also mentions that she sailed most of the way around the world getting a full 7 or 8 hours solid sleep every night, leaving the wind vane to keep watch.....
A pal of mine grew up on various boats that her parents owned - her first transatlantic was at -6 months (she was born here after they arrived) and the next was 12 years later. When she was 13 her folks were running a charter company in the BVIs, and they used to allow her to borrow charter boats to go off sailing around the islands on with a couple of pals of similar age.
OK, this was the early 70's, and she wasn't single handed, and this was in the BVIs, but there were still nods (and probably howls) of dis-approval then by many folk re how her parents could allow her to do this. I know that if she had had the opportunity then that this Dutch girl had, she would have jumped at it then, absolutely!
And I am sure that she would have accomplished whatever she set out to do, without fanfare, simply because she wanted to do it. It might not have been a round the world voyage - she might have 'just' done a passage to somewhere else and then realised she didnt want to carry on, or she may have crossed an ocean.
But I doubt she would have been detained / arrested on arrival back then at her first landfall (like the Dutch girl experienced in England), simply because people in authority had determined in their wisdom that this was in her best interest as being at sea was a dangerous and fool hardy thing for a 13 year old to be doing.
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ninky
Well-Known Member
i wish i had a fraction of her seafaring ability. this is not your average 13 year old. she has already crossed oceans singlehanded. as for the comments about her vulnerability in port - have no parents ever let their teenagers sleep overnight unsupervised at a marina?! i bet this 13 year old already does this.
if this was a 13 year old boy would people respond differently?
yes she might get attacked in harbour but is it really that likely, or less likely if she was 16 (and therefore deemed old enough to make her own decisions)?
if we consider safety to be an issue then perhaps there should be a minimum legal age at which someone is allowed to be in charge of a yacht - certainly beyond coastal waters. then there would be no record breaking after someone started this challenge on their birthday.
personally, i'm more interested in the other record. what's the oldest someone has sailed around single handed?
if this was a 13 year old boy would people respond differently?
yes she might get attacked in harbour but is it really that likely, or less likely if she was 16 (and therefore deemed old enough to make her own decisions)?
if we consider safety to be an issue then perhaps there should be a minimum legal age at which someone is allowed to be in charge of a yacht - certainly beyond coastal waters. then there would be no record breaking after someone started this challenge on their birthday.
personally, i'm more interested in the other record. what's the oldest someone has sailed around single handed?
curve
Well-Known Member
I would be even more concerned as generally boys are a lot less mature at this age than girls.
ninky
Well-Known Member
what is more acceptable - a 13 year old who chooses to sail singlehanded, or a 13 year old who is forced to sail unwillingly with their family, crossing oceans and being put in potential danger they haven't selected to be in?
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
It would appear that she is an excellent sailor as suggested.
She is also probably at home with big sea's etc because of her upbringing.
What she does not have is experience of long periods being alone as far as we know. This, coupled with her age, could be a real problem. Many Blue Water people talk of being in company with Francis Drake etc. Could she cope with this ?
I hope she doesn't do it. If she does, I think say a two week voyage of some kind should be undertaken first. Difficult to see how this could work though with the probable massive publicity and pressure.
Why not just wait a few years to fulfil the dream ? Surely patience is another virtue for a thirteen year old to gain ?
She is also probably at home with big sea's etc because of her upbringing.
What she does not have is experience of long periods being alone as far as we know. This, coupled with her age, could be a real problem. Many Blue Water people talk of being in company with Francis Drake etc. Could she cope with this ?
I hope she doesn't do it. If she does, I think say a two week voyage of some kind should be undertaken first. Difficult to see how this could work though with the probable massive publicity and pressure.
Why not just wait a few years to fulfil the dream ? Surely patience is another virtue for a thirteen year old to gain ?
