How stupid can people be?

[ballena]

I have just seen on the news that a woman has died on the River Severn.

Apparently she was pulled from the 20 foot boat, along with another 15 people.

A serious case of over loading I think, what the hell was the owner doing.?

Three people have been arrested and the responsible person/s should have the book thrown at them if found guilty IMHO.

My thoughts go out to the familiy of the deceased who have lost a loved one through sheer irresponsibility of someone else, when will people learn.

Please forgive me If any of the above is inacurate, I saw short piece on the news, however, does make you wonder at the antics of some people!!

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[tcm]

15 is far too many people.

I wd like to await actual facts : like the Mercedes 280 (or was is a 500?) reported in the news when Princess Diana died - it's worth remebering that very few news reporters on the telly have the faintest clue about anything technical cos they are all arts graduates.

Nonetheless, the boat in the pix doesn't look any bigger than say 28 feet - so it's still massively overloaded if 15 people on it, and could easily have capsized as a result.

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[hlb]

All very true. But I'm a bit agains this. Finding some one to blame culture. Shurely they all knew it was overloaded, so equally to blame. So it should be treated as an accident, even if a foolish one.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[lanason]

Are there pictures - cant find this story - was the boat moored or under way ???
I guess underway. How many adults and how many kids .......

Deepest sympathy to those affected.

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
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[Artie]

I agree hib. Everyone over the age of 18 on that boat is equally responsible - however the owner/capt should KNOW the limits of his boat.

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[Bergman]

See your point but it goes against the idea that the skipper is responsible - always.
Presumably the crew or passengers, whichever, didn't just climb aboard uninvited so some responsibility must pass to whoever invited or allowed them to come aboard.

Would all 15 have taken a share of any 3rd party liability? - I doubt it.

Last I heard the police were conducting a criminal investigation so praps best wait and see what they come up with.

Wasn't there a similar case on the broads a month or two back? Never heard if anything came of that.

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[tcm]

Re: link

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/3087524.stm>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/3087524.stm</A>

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[hlb]

Yep. But. Any one of us could have a stupid accident one day. Run aground maybe. Or whatever. Eventually we will be sailing round on our own, afraid of inviting anyone.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Bergman]

Know what you mean

Its the ratio of stupidity to accident that makes it difficult.

All very sad

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[hlb]

Re: link

I may well have Known them. I was in the same marina for the winter, about three years ago. It's very friendly, so they were probably having a piss up and a laugh. Pity for it to end this way. But dont see why anyone should be arrested.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[LeytonC]

Name of the boat

The boats name was (Is) 'Sweetie pie'

as a severn boater i really cannot belive people are so stupid, I think the other
people were very lucky to get out alive, the severn is not a place to swim at night.
The currents can be strong up there, and the weir is less than a mile away.



<hr width=100% size=1>Thanks

Leyton
(EXTAR Solutions - Software that works for you)

 

[lanason]

Re: Name of the boat

Just up river from where we launch - what type of boat was it and do you know the people involved ???

Tragic circumstances

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
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[Guest]

Re: Worcester Constabulary grows 250%

I that's a 28 footer, then the copper stood behind it must be about, oh, 15 feet tall.

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[peterb]

Re: Worcester Constabulary grows 250%

The BBC report suggests a 20 footer.

The final sentence of the BBC report is interesting. "Police have not ruled out the possibility that the boat may have been overloaded."

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[Rob_Webb]

Obvious!

Because if the owner/skipper is found to have been negligent in overloading his vessel, then of course he should be arrested to reflect his stupidity and disregard for the safetyof human life.

It is bloody ridiculous to expect every passenger to be responsible for understanding whether or not the craft might be safe or not, especially if they don't know about boats and were invited aboard by a welcoming skipper.

Just in case this isn't crystal clear, how about another analogy:

If your loved ones were killed in a light aircraft crash and the pilot was found to have negiligently overloaded the plane with passengers and luggage on a weekend jaunt to Le Touquet, would you say "Oh, well, each passenger should have known what was happening and was responsible for their own action". No need to chastise the pilot" (if he lived).

Bollocks would you. You (and the authorities) would rightly argue that the passengers submitted themselves to the commander of the craft and should not have been expected to understand anything about weight/load dynamics - they understood their safety to be in the skipper/pilot's hands.

IF this turns out to be such a stupidly, negilgent (and thereffore avoidable) case, it is beyond me how anyone could just say "ok, these things happen, never mind, let the skipper walk away".



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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Obvious!

Sounds just a bit harsh, the analogy with a pilot doesn't really hold up as he/she would have to have had fairly extensive training in the first place, unlike a skipper of a small boat on a river, the plane would have a set number of seats, unlike a small boat on a river.

I would bet that small boats such as this have been overloaded hundreds of times each year and got away with it, seems somewhat unfair to arrest the skipper and prosecute on this occasion but not all the others who have been lucky. I do not have all the facts so all this IMHO, but I do hate this blame culture when there was no intent to cause harm or injury.

Stupid maybe, but criminally negligent?

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[hlb]

Re: Obvious!

Thanks John, for being in the real world. Now take last week for instance. When your son was doing the barbacue. He might have set fire to the boat and frazzled us all. But aresting him and putting him in clink, would not have done the rest of us any good.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[lanason]

Re: Obvious!

Interesting challenge do we punish the root cause problem OR the effect of the problem.

i.e. Two guys make the identical mistake in manufacturing - one is caught at the final inspection process and rectified, and the other leads to an airplane crash.
Should they both be equally punished ..... ????????

In the work place someone who makes a mistake that leads to a a costly customer rejection is likely to be disciplined but his mate who made a similar mistake that was found maybe only got a minor "word in his ear". Is this fair !! Should it be fair !!



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[Happy1]

Re: Obvious!

The sooner there is compulsary training the better. As LJS says you need training to be a pilot and also to drive a car, but it is unbelieveable that you can be in charge of other souls without having any training. This is criminal in itself and needs urgent review by the government with heavy punishment for any person who ventures on to water without having completed some basic form of training. This could perhaps be compulsary if you take a passenger, because why should a passengers life be put at risk by some arrogant pratt that feels he doesn't need training, and ends up killing someone? How many passengers ask the skipper if he is trained? they tend to believe they are trained and are in fact putting their life in his/her hands.

The training or check test could be quite basic, with one level for rivers and one for sea. At least then everyone would know that the skipper knows the stern from the bow, and what that CE plate with the maximum load and passengers means /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

I want to make it clear this is a general view and in no way is directed at this tragic accident, which we do not have full details about.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[longjohnsilver]

Re: Obvious!

Ah H1, that old argument again! How many passengers are killed in pleasure boat accidents each year compared to say road accidents where everyone has passed a test. having this compulsory training and testing (and MOTs) still doesn't prevent these accidents and I suspect the same will apply on the water.

Some people are sensible and some are foolish, that's something you'll never change.

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