How strong a halyard for MOB retrieval?

RunAgroundHard said:
1. The lifesavers allow a boat hook to be used to secure the lifesaver and attach to the boat. It negates the most difficult part, in my opinion, actually grabbing the MOB.
2. The life sling is a good idea, I carry one, but it requires the MOB to be conscious to use it, otherwise you are relying on luck that it will catch as you circle round. In my waters, cold shock is very likely and rapid debilitation followed by unconsciousness is to be expected. Also, you need to be able to reach down to the life sling lifting point, which may not be a straightforward thing to achieve. Not all lifejackets have lifting points, so in this case, a life sling could be useful.

In my case, sailing predominately as a couple, on my boat, this is what I have settled on: lifesavers on all my lifejackets, and an 8:1 lifting tackle, which I connect to my spinnikar halyard to raise to a working height, then cleat off. The topping lift, spare genoa halyard and mainsail halyard can all be used as well. Other end goes on the lifesling, easy peasy.

Personally, my experience is that you need to get the boat alongside, upwind, to lift MOB out, positioning the boat by sail or motor.

As I said earlier, develop a system that works for you and practise, iron out the issues, so you have a working system you can rely on, without the MOB aiding you in any way (irrespective of water temperature).

I have reversed over my life sling chopping the lanyard. This happened practising, demoing, a very useful method. Do the so called crash stop by tacking (in a controlled way but don’t release genoa sheets, dump main sheet, heave too. Normally you will be upwind of MOB, and the next steps only work if you are. Switch on engine, then use reverse to back up to MOB remaining heave too, up wind, then with bursts of reverse and forward, drift down onto MOB, kill engine, recover MOB. This method is just another tool in the box. Try it with a bucket and fender.

I have done hundreds of MOB drills. As said earlier, only when I had to demonstrate MOB recovery onto the boat, that I realised I didn’t have a clue how to do that successfully, confidently. Hence I landed on the kit stated and have drilled with that.

It’s great that you’re developing a method and questioning stuff. All the best with your endeavours, and I hope my experience gives you food for thought.
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Good points.
  • Plans that require mucsle don't work for cruising couples, since the big bloke is the one in the water. That is what this thread is about, really.
  • Note that they used the transom ladder and that very little muscle was needed. The transom was moving a lot less than the side and they didn't have the high freeboard to contend with.
I've watched the "muscle" approach, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not. Reaching down and pulling up over 4 feet of wet freeboard while leaning over, with only room for ~ 2 men is really, really bad ergonomics, which also hints at the halyard question, even if the halyard only provides a portion of the lift. That may be its best application, if you have enough hands (I've only had that many people on the boat a few times--two is the common number).

To me, the interesting topic is COB recovery for couples. Only one person on deck. Crash stop and muscle are not going to work:
  • Maybe the other person is below. No crash stop.
  • No one at the helm while hoisting/muscling. The boat will not hold station/heading unless carefully hove to. Not likely.
  • Very little muscle. And if the crew falls in, you are both dead.
 
xyachtdave said:
Ok that explains that then, thanks. I was surprised a fully crewed (minus 1 or 2 persons of course) race boat couldn't get him onboard quicker by positioning the boat alongside and using the available muscle.
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We didn't see how they ended up with 2 people in the water - perhaps alongside was first attempt and ended up with second person in the water? We don't know the skills of those on board - it may be the 2 most experienced helms are the guys in the water. Or it is simply they were using the lifesling as intended to keep the hull away from heads and prop away from legs. Having seen how many people's attempts at picking up mooring bouys I'm not sure I fancy being in the water as they aim for my head!
 
thinwater said:
The way you move the sling to the casualty is to trail it in the water while circling. It worked.

(I'm not suggesting the Lifesling replaces other gear. It is one tool, a proven very effective tool for many situations.)

lifesling-towline-retrieval-illustration.ashx
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I plan a similar approach

I have 2 dan buoys that can be released in a similar way to above and I have 2 life horse shew buoys one attached to the one dan buoy and to the boat to allow the MOB can be circuited.

The other dan buoy and like buoy to help locate the MOB

to retrieve the MOB I have a spinnaker halyard as well as a second spare halyard and both or either can be boomed out using my spinnaker pole to help prevent the MOB crashing on the side of the boat

The lifebuoy with the MOB inside can be retrieved as it is still attached to the boat so that the halyard can be attached to the life buoy
 
Another thing to consider. In many cases the most skilled person fell in, leaving less skilled crew on board. What can the crew do (this will vary--these are questions, not statements)?
  • Crash stop (if upwind)? Only if they do it without hesitation and understand how the boat carries.
  • Crash stop, tethered MOB. It does lift a victim trapped in the bow wave out of the water, so it is probably the best reflex for tethered MOBs that have fallen to leeward. It also stops the boat. Crew should know this and do it within seconds.
  • Any of the circle and return methods. I like these (better for multihulls), but skill and practice are required.
  • Take the sails down and start engine? A number of problems, but requires less boat handling skill under sail. May be the only practical way if sailing down wind. May be most practical way if MOB is during a sail change (The sails won't be balanced anyway).
 
thinwater said:
Another thing to consider. In many cases the most skilled person fell in, leaving less skilled crew on board. What can the crew do (this will vary--these are questions, not statements)?
  • Crash stop (if upwind)? Only if they do it without hesitation and understand how the boat carries.
  • Crash stop, tethered MOB. It does lift a victim trapped in the bow wave out of the water, so it is probably the best reflex for tethered MOBs that have fallen to leeward. It also stops the boat. Crew should know this and do it within seconds.
  • Any of the circle and return methods. I like these (better for multihulls), but skill and practice are required.
  • Take the sails down and start engine? A number of problems, but requires less boat handling skill under sail. May be the only practical way if sailing down wind. May be most practical way if MOB is during a sail change (The sails won't be balanced anyway).
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I think you've missed the mayday call as sometimes being the most effective way for an inexperienced short-crewed boat to get the person back. Another boat may have lower freeboard, more experience/skill, more muscle.
 
ylop said:
I think you've missed the mayday call as sometimes being the most effective way for an inexperienced short-crewed boat to get the person back. Another boat may have lower freeboard, more experience/skill, more muscle.
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Very good point. And staying near the casualty. Sometimes taking sails down and staying on-station is all they can do. Don't lose sight. That is a big part of the battle.

But it should never take muscle. IMO if that is part of the plan, except for fully crewed race boats, it's an incomplete plan.

I have picked up MOB from other boats twice. Once the boat had turtled and the crew was fine. They just climbed the ladder. The other time the person was hypothermic and possibly a little drunk (fishing alone early spring). Fortunately, I was wearing a dry suit, so I went in the water on a long tether to get him hooked up (no PFD on the victim). It was pretty easy because it was not very rough, just choppy. I then helped him up the ladder, but he really was not much help (hypothermia, not drunk). Interestingly, I was solo, but I had the sails down and the rudder over. so that we were drifting down wind at an angle, slowly. Was this taking a chance? Yes. The guy was sinking fast and there was nothing to get a hold of. But I was near shore and wearing a dry suit. I'm pretty comfortable in the water, having grown up surfing. But I am NOT recommending this. It could have ended differently, depending on the situation, skill set, fitness (I was younger), and conditions. It was easy, but I hope not to repeat it. Byut consider what you might have to do if it was a family member. You can't just watch, but you do need to think it through.
 
Very useful discussion. I do have a ladder but the biggest fear is an unconscious MOB.
I think if it proved impossible to recover my unconscious wife, I would probably jump in and join her.
Perhaps someone would answer the mayday and rescue us but better to demise together than lose my other half.
 
ylop said:
I think you've missed the mayday call as sometimes being the most effective way for an inexperienced short-crewed boat to get the person back. Another boat may have lower freeboard, more experience/skill, more muscle.
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Was able to discuss the whole MOB issue with the crew of the Yarmouth lifeboat at a visit on Saturday. They all urge: get the Mayday out first. Then someone else knows you have a problem.
 
FinesseChris said:
Was able to discuss the whole MOB issue with the crew of the Yarmouth lifeboat at a visit on Saturday. They all urge: get the Mayday out first. Then someone else knows you have a problem.
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On the Solent definitely Mayday early - lots of other boats around and nearby lifeboats.
Perhaps different in areas where lifeboat is several hours away, it's self help only.
But often solo, MOB recovery is a theoretical topic only
 
dunedin said:
On the Solent definitely Mayday early - lots of other boats around and nearby lifeboats.
Perhaps different in areas where lifeboat is several hours away, it's self help only.
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Perhaps all the more reason for an early call...
 
dunedin said:
On the Solent definitely Mayday early - lots of other boats around and nearby lifeboats.
Perhaps different in areas where lifeboat is several hours away, it's self help only.....
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Wherever you are, you don't know who else is close. So early call every time, any reason not to?
 
penberth3 said:
Wherever you are, you don't know who else is close. So early call every time, any reason not to?
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If short handed it is a prioritisation call - going to the radio may mean nobody on deck to keep an eye on the casualty. Fine to do all at the same time if 3 or 4 people still on board. But yes do first if local assistance is likely to be available.

I was shocked when involved as MayDay relay for a kayaker in distress off Raasay in the early morning. Two commercial vessels failed to respond to the original MayDay call - or my discussion back and forth to the Coastguard over 15 minutes as they steamed past. As I was solo I pointed out I could message relay but could not go into the rocky lee shore to try to do a rescue. The two commercial vessels going last had RIBs on board but (a) failed to offer assistance and (b) when I phoned the Coastguard and pointed them out on AIS and suggested they contacted them directly the Coastguard didn’t attempt to contact them, though at the time passing less than 2m from the casualty. Fortunately the kayaker managed to get ashore in a rocky cove so was safe for the 45 further minutes before the lifeboat arrived.

Also a very recent PanPan the Coastguard spent 5 minutes asking all sorts of details, including call sign (never used in 50 years) from a poor skipper who was trying to cope with an emergency without the bureaucratic form filling.
I have occasionally briefed any crew that if I fall overboard, press the red button, tell them the problem and the assistance requested - and then tell them to use the MMSi and look up the rest on their computer system and not to waste time with this.
 
Graham_Wright said:
Very useful discussion. I do have a ladder but the biggest fear is an unconscious MOB.
I think if it proved impossible to recover my unconscious wife, I would probably jump in and join her.
Perhaps someone would answer the mayday and rescue us but better to demise together than lose my other half.
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That's dedication!

We did a lot of work on MOB recovery technique before our summer in the Arctic a few years ago, and we concluded that the only practical way to recover an unconscious person is to put someone into the water. So we had a designated rescue swimmer.

For a double-handed boat and in rough weather, this is a pretty grim situation.
 
I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies. I used to sail either single handed or with one other often my partner who was not strong. She could handle the boat well though so it was the crash stop then sheet in or drop sails to get the boat close to me if I went overboard. ( We tried this out in different conditions with the fender and bucket method and she became confident and adept at getting the boat to the object.
However there was virtually no chance that she could have recovered me on board before I succumbed to fatigue etc. The answer we came up with was that she would launch the life raft ASAP in the expectation / hope that I would have enough strength left to get aboard and recover enough to manage / help in getting back aboard the yacht. We obviously didn't try it in practice although I have boarded a raft unaided several times on survival courses in swimming pools so know that it's not as easy as it may sound but I think it was our and the best option for a lightly crewed yacht.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
I haven't read through the whole thread so apologies. I used to sail either single handed or with one other often my partner who was not strong. She could handle the boat well though so it was the crash stop then sheet in or drop sails to get the boat close to me if I went overboard. ( We tried this out in different conditions with the fender and bucket method and she became confident and adept at getting the boat to the object.
However there was virtually no chance that she could have recovered me on board before I succumbed to fatigue etc. The answer we came up with was that she would launch the life raft ASAP in the expectation / hope that I would have enough strength left to get aboard and recover enough to manage / help in getting back aboard the yacht. We obviously didn't try it in practice although I have boarded a raft unaided several times on survival courses in swimming pools so know that it's not as easy as it may sound but I think it was our and the best option for a lightly crewed yacht.
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Decent idea. The casualty being in a life raft would take a lot of heat out of the situation and buy valuable time.

You still need to get back to the casualty yo get the life raft close enough mind you!
 
Minerva said:
Decent idea. The casualty being in a life raft would take a lot of heat out of the situation and buy valuable time.

You still need to get back to the casualty yo get the life raft close enough mind you!
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That's the point of the crash stop and engine back to the casualty, it is very efficient, quicker and imo better than trying to sail back especially for a "weak" crew that is unless the engine is disabled.
 
Dockhead said:
... and we concluded that the only practical way to recover an unconscious person is to put someone into the water. So we had a designated rescue swimmer.

For a double-handed boat and in rough weather, this is a pretty grim situation.
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An MOB Lifesaver is 3m / 10' long. Assuming the MOB is wearing a lifejacket with one fitted, then the Lifesaver can be hooked with a boat hook and secured to the boat. It can then be used to lift the MOB onboard.

I am pretty confident that my wife who has a smaller star than me, and I am short, would be able to lift me back onboard using the lifesaver and 8:1 tackle, as previously linked to in this thread. While we have not tested it in rough waters, we have tested it with me in the water wearing a lifejacket that deployed the lifesaver.

The point I am making, is that for some size of boats, the Lifesavers negate the need to put anyone in the water. I can rig up my 8:1 pull in around 2 minutes from locker to ready to hoist MOB.
 
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