How self sufficient can you be?

[Zanziba]

A quick question to which I am curious as well as a bit of fun:

How self sufficient can you be on your sail yacht? I am thinking solar panels, wind turbines, water making thingies and fishing?

How long have people lived without returning to land for supplies? Does anyone fish off their yacht or is this simply not practical? What is the water like if you make it yourself and what about rainwater?

 

[KellysEye]

Believe or not there is a French book with an ISBN number which covers how to equip your boat and sail with no money. One chapter is on stealing. As the saying goes we fit out our boats to go cruising, the French go cruising to fit out their boats and it's true in the Caribbean, Indian Ocean and Pacific. That should make you self sufficient

To answer you specific questions. Fishing is fine. Rain can't be relied on but can be useful, obviouly you need a catchment system. A watermaker is a good idea. People have lived aboard without provisioning for at least as year, probably more. You can't be self sufficient with wind/solar power unless you dump all your electronics and lights.

 

[lenseman]

. . . . . . You can't be self sufficient with wind/solar power unless you dump all your electronics and lights.

Yes you can, you just need a number of solar panels to meet the demand and the same goes for wind turbines. I have seen a few yachts with two turbines on the stern rail

 

[mike_bryon]

You can be provided you enjoy frugal but it does depend on how many you are and where you are. There’s more potential in the Caribbean than in the UK or Mediterranean. Here we use only solar. The computer I work from and everything else are powered by the panels. But no refrigeration and underway we hand steer so no hungry auto-helm to feed. We row ashore so no outboard to provide for. No form of heating is required down these parts and this year the rain has continued so water catchment is still keeping up with demand (no water maker) but we wash ourselves, our clothes and the dishes in salt water. I last bought diesel 18 months ago and don’t envisage needing to buy any this or next year. We buy cooking gas, staples, fruit and vegetables and credit for the mobile phone as the wifi here in the anchorage is too frail for Skype.

Fishing supplements the stores. On passage we usually catch fish every few days but I have invested research and money in equipment and technique. When at anchor I set a fish trap. In some locations at night when there is no moon I set a gill net along the boat length. Others use spear guns but many countries ban visitors from using them. I’ve had to row around the anchorage giving fish away on a few occasions. It’s amazing how many people decline even when I’ve offered to clean it for them.

However the real world does come in handy from time-to-time. There’s no hospital on the island and the children contracted dengue fever. We had to organise a medical evacuation to Barbados so it’s best to have a few $US to hand for the unexpected.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

Believe or not there is a French book with an ISBN number which covers how to equip your boat and sail with no money. One chapter is on stealing. As the saying goes we fit out our boats to go cruising, the French go cruising to fit out their boats and it's true in the Caribbean, Indian Ocean and Pacific. That should make you self sufficient

To answer you specific questions. Fishing is fine. Rain can't be relied on but can be useful, obviouly you need a catchment system. A watermaker is a good idea. People have lived aboard without provisioning for at least as year, probably more. You can't be self sufficient with wind/solar power unless you dump all your electronics and lights.

Yes, I've met them!

Chas

 

[whipper_snapper]

You can't be self sufficient with wind/solar power unless you dump all your electronics and lights.

Absolutely not true. We had only solar and wind (no engine, no genny) for several years. We ran a fridge/freezer, lighting, autopilot, computer, normal nav instruments, SSB radio. We had to be careful and turn the fridge off at night, but maintaining a balance was not a problem. We now have a new outboard with a 6A alternator, luxury, but never run it solely for the purpose of generating power.

 

[daveyw]

How about 3 years without landfall! http://1000days.net/home/

 

[TQA]

You can't be self sufficient with wind/solar power unless you dump all your electronics and lights.

Not so. I run a fridge making two trays of ice a day, a watermaker and a lappie plus the usual lights etc and am fully charged most days. OK if I get two days of heavy cloud then the battery bank gets low. If this was a regular occurence I would add a wind genny to my 400 watts of solar. Mind you living aboard in the Caribbean helps.

 

[Zanziba]

Great replies guys (n gals?). I am a few years (possibly less) to stepping off land and then a decade or so later I want to shrug off as much connection as I can as I retire nice and early. Cost of living will be a big issue then so knowing I could be pretty much self sufficient gives my plans more credibility.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

Believe or not there is a French book with an ISBN number which covers how to equip your boat and sail with no money. One chapter is on stealing. As the saying goes we fit out our boats to go cruising, the French go cruising to fit out their boats

What I want to know is WTF do they do with so many shorepower cables and hosepipes?

 

[MASH]

You can't be self sufficient with wind/solar power unless you dump all your electronics and lights.

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that this sentence is nonsense unless it is a typo and should read, "...without wind and solar...!"

 

[macd]

You can't be self sufficient with wind/solar power unless you dump all your electronics and lights.

I'm another who asserts that this is palpably not true, at least from April to September inclusive. You most definitely can be self-sufficient with wind/solar without dumping lights and electronics (although it helps if most of your lights are LEDs).

Fridges are often mentioned as the greediest consumers of elecricity aboard, but the truth is that modern laptops guzzle far more than a well-insulated, modestly-sized fridge, albeit that they're not switched on for so long. On the rare occasions when I go into deficit, it's through extensive use of the 'puter.

 

[louisc]

Cost of living will be a big issue then so knowing I could be pretty much self sufficient gives my plans more credibility.

Nice question for a post.

The cost of living will be a huge issue in the coming years, and particularly the cost of energy. I've been a Peak Oil advocate for some time and I only see the situation deteriorating from here on in - so I suppose the question should really be .. 'why wouldn't you strive for self sufficiency on a boat'.
There are more and more options coming online such as solar ovens and hand crank food processors, wind up torches and radios, foot pump battery chargers etc etc.
There are a number of ways of fishing from a boat whilst at anchor - for instance once you've gutted and cleaned your fish - put the remnants in a lobsterpot/crab net - lower .. leave .. retrieve.
Most seaweed is edible .. get a good book on foraging, particularly one that covers coastlines.
Get a stackable grower for things like bean sprouts et al.
Most importantly though is challenging your own status quo.
The first time I came across a composting toilet I was 'a little unsure' ... hehe.. but once you've seen one in action ... you start to wonder why we don't all use them - not that there's a need for one on a boat, but I'm talking about challenging your own perception of what you actually need as opposed to what you're used to.
At the end of the day discovering that a 'hiccup' in petroleum availability is going to hit those without a self sufficient option almost immediately and building solutions into a lifestyle that is dependent on 'on demand' power takes time, planning and a bit of a budget. Whatever you do towards reducing your need for centrally supplied power (either for your body or your support systems) will greatly lessen the shock when supply becomes intermittent, expensive and oversubscribed in terms of demand.

If you're ever in any doubt about your reasoning spend a bit of time becoming familiar with the reality of Peak Oil and the likely consequences of it. It will help greatly with your perspective on why you're trying to achieve self sufficiency in the first place.
The site I use regularly is www.theoildrum.com
The site is huge - don't be put off by it - alot of it is technical - just read the stuff that makes sense to you and take it from there - have a look at the links on the left hand side of the home page.

 

[Zanziba]

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that this sentence is nonsense unless it is a typo and should read, "...without wind and solar...!"

I think that the sentence makes perfect sense, although it may not be true. The poster is asserting that you cannot be self sufficient utilising only Solar and Wind power (i.e. no shore power or diesel burning) unless you get rid of anything high powered from your system (e.g. replacing lights with LED's)

I can understand that you thought they were saying you NEEDED wind and solar but they are saying that this alone is not enough.

 

[MASH]

Zanzi, not so. The statement is an absolute containing "cannot" and "all". Thus it is utter nonsense. What the hell would you be wanting electricity for if you dumped ALL your lights and electronics? Please don't say fridge. Thats the first thing to go when power is short.

Semantics aside it makes no practical sense. Of course you can be self sufficient as long as your average usage is less than your solar and wind machines harvest, and dumping ALL your kit just means you don't use or need ANY electricity which is daft.

 

[V1701]

Here's a manual watermaker, about £700 though. A lot of the time you should be able to wangle access to free water somehow, i.e. when not on passage. I think there's a couple of books called "Harvesting the Ocean" & "Seasteading" I've seen mentioned in another thread, haven't seen them though. I've read Annie Hill's "Voyaging on a Small Income", that's worth a read. Med's not good for fishing & in 10 days across the Indian Ocean 2 of us didn't catch enough to live on, but then we weren't really trying to, we had loads of food. If you're determined enough to do something there's usually a way...

 

[charles_reed]

I'm another who asserts that this is palpably not true, at least from April to September inclusive. You most definitely can be self-sufficient with wind/solar without dumping lights and electronics (although it helps if most of your lights are LEDs).

Fridges are often mentioned as the greediest consumers of elecricity aboard, but the truth is that modern laptops guzzle far more than a well-insulated, modestly-sized fridge, albeit that they're not switched on for so long. On the rare occasions when I go into deficit, it's through extensive use of the 'puter.

I'd agree totally with that comment - my daily anchored usage virtually doubles when a conventional laptop is brought into the equation.

Two ways of reducing the power use:-

1. Get a computer with one of the CULV CPUs - the Atom is very economic but too feeble.
2. Use one of the Linux distros in preference to the Windows OS - you'll get about 50% more work out of the same charge. Win 7 is rather more economic than XP. but at the expense of needing >2Gb of RAM,

 

[charles_reed]

Nice question for a post.

The cost of living will be a huge issue in the coming years, and particularly the cost of energy. I've been a Peak Oil advocate for some time and I only see the situation deteriorating from here on in - so I suppose the question should really be .. 'why wouldn't you strive for self sufficiency on a boat'.
There are more and more options coming online such as solar ovens and hand crank food processors, wind up torches and radios, foot pump battery chargers etc etc.
There are a number of ways of fishing from a boat whilst at anchor - for instance once you've gutted and cleaned your fish - put the remnants in a lobsterpot/crab net - lower .. leave .. retrieve.
Most seaweed is edible .. get a good book on foraging, particularly one that covers coastlines.
Get a stackable grower for things like bean sprouts et al.
Most importantly though is challenging your own status quo.
The first time I came across a composting toilet I was 'a little unsure' ... hehe.. but once you've seen one in action ... you start to wonder why we don't all use them - not that there's a need for one on a boat, but I'm talking about challenging your own perception of what you actually need as opposed to what you're used to.
At the end of the day discovering that a 'hiccup' in petroleum availability is going to hit those without a self sufficient option almost immediately and building solutions into a lifestyle that is dependent on 'on demand' power takes time, planning and a bit of a budget. Whatever you do towards reducing your need for centrally supplied power (either for your body or your support systems) will greatly lessen the shock when supply becomes intermittent, expensive and oversubscribed in terms of demand.

If you're ever in any doubt about your reasoning spend a bit of time becoming familiar with the reality of Peak Oil and the likely consequences of it. It will help greatly with your perspective on why you're trying to achieve self sufficiency in the first place.
The site I use regularly is www.theoildrum.com
The site is huge - don't be put off by it - alot of it is technical - just read the stuff that makes sense to you and take it from there - have a look at the links on the left hand side of the home page.

A far more compelling argument than any disputable comments about global warming. Our problem is that the cornerstone of our technological civilisation is petroleum, losing it will cause civilisation, as we know it, to crumble.
Fortunately, we'll probably have a period of adjustment, when the price of petroleum products will escalate taking it out of more and more humans' reach.
It is interesting, that at least two CEO's of oil majors subscribe, albeit quietly, to the Peak Oil theory.

 

[charles_reed]

I think that the sentence makes perfect sense, although it may not be true. The poster is asserting that you cannot be self sufficient utilising only Solar and Wind power (i.e. no shore power or diesel burning) unless you get rid of anything high powered from your system (e.g. replacing lights with LED's)

I can understand that you thought they were saying you NEEDED wind and solar but they are saying that this alone is not enough.

I'd struggle to find any basis for agreeing with Kelly's Eye's statement.
I suppose, if we had a major volcanic eruption (Krakatoa+) it might be true if you were in a windless area.

With regard to the original OP - oceanic crossings might need a watermaker, but for normal cruising it's a luxury.
However, thinking of the Balearics, and a few other places, where you either have to pay for water or steal it, a watermaker might make economic sense if you insist on staying there - personally I'd move on. There are one or two islands where water is in short supply - Scillonia, Pantelleria, Flegree, spring to mind.
I doubt one could run a watermaker successfully off PV panels/wind generation, except on a very large boat, so that would require running main or generator engine and therefore fuel.
As to collecting rainwater - it's quite easy, modify your boom bag to catch it and run off.
But such water is far from pure even, I'm told, 1000s of miles from land, so you need to ditch the 1st parts and thoroughly filter the rest, before putting it into your tanks.

 

[KellysEye]

>What I want to know is WTF do they do with so many shorepower cables and hosepipes?

They steal anything that be moved or unbolted. Spinnaker poles, liferafts, other safety equipment, or put another way think what you have on deck. One French boat was caught leaving Guadeloupe with nine outboards and dinghies below deck.

They even stole a racing yacht in the BVI and had the nerve to stop in Martinique to repaint and rename the boat.

Probably the classic was an English skipper in the Chagos islands. His wife had taken the dinghy to vistit another boat thus the Frogs thought there was nobody on board. The skipper was below deck and heard noises from the back of the boat. He went on deck to see what was going on and there were two French guys unbolting his Aries vane gear. He said 'what the efff are you doing' and they replied 'sorry wrong boat'.