How Safe are Windows in the Hull

[Wansworth]

So it’s a floating caravan ,I’m sure the naval architect will be pleased to hear that

 

[seeSimon]

I am sure the marine architects who spent years studying will agree with you.

I will have a bet with you that more boats have sunk due to poor fixings of their garboard planks than have sunk due to windows popping out.

....so far....

I'd venture that increasing numbers of us will be sailing with bonded in Windows...while the opposite is true for garboard planks.

Imho...we are probably yet to see "peak bonded window failure" as its a comparatively new tech...and one that at first glance appears to be very easily "bodgable"?

If I had such windows I'd be carrying portable "blinders" or similar emergency portable deadlights. Many commercial craft (even without bonded windows) are required so to do.
Easily made from heavy ply or aluminium plate.

 

[lustyd]

If I had such windows I'd be carrying portable "blinders" or similar emergency portable deadlights. Many commercial craft (even without bonded windows) are required so to do.
Easily made from heavy ply or aluminium plate.

I suspect that most people with nice modern boats don't tend to carry bits of ply in case their boat fails in extremely rare ways. Most of these boats are still with original owners right now, it's usually second or third owners who'd ignore small leaks indicative of sealant/adhesive failure as most people who can afford a new boat would also be able to afford to maintain it properly.

 

[Tranona]

Although realistically almost nobody does buy those other boats, and I would hazard a guess that Marsali isn't in the market either so no wonder their thoughts are ignored!

I often hesitate to say such things. as you say vast majority of people who criticise such boats would never be in a position to buy one. If they are there is plenty of choice to meet all sorts of needs.

 

[Tranona]

So it’s a floating caravan ,I’m sure the naval architect will be pleased to hear that

No. It is a sharp sailing machine designed by one of Italy's top naval architects. This is how the builder presents it to potential buyers dufour-yachts.com/en/luxury-yachts/dufour-41/

 

[Wansworth]

It’s not long ago I made observations about this boat whizzing across the sea with the capatain Iassume attheleeward wheel standing legs spread guidingthis yacht thought he seas whilst his partner /wife sunbathed against the cabin bulkheads in a swim suit .I thought the wheel position was rather exposed .But if as you point out this boat is not for rough seas it’s ok and the windows will be ok.I realize I am respectful of your opinion and knowledge that I have commented on before but from my position as ahumble yachtty brought up on tales and stories and books about crossing the sea I just cannot equate such brochures with my experience huddled in the corner of the cockpit glad to have at least a sprayhood and going below falling into the leeberth after struggling to warm up some soup .

 

[wonkywinch]

When I started looking for a boat I considered myself serious about buying something "proper". For my budget a HR would be 10-15 years older than the AWB but it was important my partner was onboard too.

We ended up with a floating motorhome that has served us well so far. Currently anchored in Bow Creek off to the Maltsters for dinner. Even named the boat after her.

Love champagne sailing but she's coped with F6 and 4m seas without a problem.

 

[[194497]]

'Floating caravan' designs might not be to the taste of all of us older sailors but they do have high freeboard, a lot of volume and length for their displacement, deep keels, and reefing / furling that can be managed from the cockpit, all of which features make them more seaworthy than a traditionalist might think.

 

[seeSimon]

I often hesitate to say such things. as you say vast majority of people who criticise such boats would never be in a position to buy one. If they are there is plenty of choice to meet all sorts of needs.

Ah...but of course they will become buyers eventually...once these boats are replaced by the next fashion/technical advances and today's latest boats drop down the food chain.

 

[lustyd]

Ah...but of course they will become buyers eventually...once these boats are replaced by the next fashion/technical advances and today's latest boats drop down the food chain.

But second hand buyers get what they're given. That's the point, they don't get to have any input on design choices.

Which is lucky, or we'd all be sailing Contessa 32s, eating Fray Bentos and desperately trying to dry out our clothing after a wet sail heeled to 45 degrees.
I, for one, am rather glad to sail mostly upright and dry before retiring below to a well cooked meal with fresh ingredients, ice in my gin, and a hot shower to freshen up after a day on the water.

 

[doug748]

But second hand buyers get what they're given. That's the point, they don't get to have any input on design choices.

Just the opposite really? Huge range of used boats, new mainly charter specials.

 

[lustyd]

Just the opposite really? Huge range of used boats, new mainly charter specials.

On the contrary, new boats are the way they are because new boat buyers have asked for them to be that way. If new boat buyers wanted something else then something else would be made. Some new boat buyers do, but they are in such a minority that their new boat costs orders of magnitude more due to a lack of scale at the factory.

 

[noelex]

On the contrary, new boats are the way they are because new boat buyers have asked for them to be that way. If new boat buyers wanted something else then something else would be made. Some new boat buyers do, but they are in such a minority that their new boat costs orders of magnitude more due to a lack of scale at the factory.

This is true. Manufacturers will build the boats that buyers want.

Unfortunately, the average buyer uses their boat for a very small number of days a year, typically choosing to sail when conditions are settled. Often nights are spent at a marina or mooring buoy.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

This is true. Manufacturers will build the boats that buyers want.

Unfortunately, the average buyer uses their boat for a very small number of days a year, often choosing to sail when conditions are settled. Often nights are spent at a marina or mooring buoy.

Or, alternatively, fortunate to be able to enjoy that choice.

 

[doug748]

This is true. Manufacturers will build the boats that buyers want.

Unfortunately, the average buyer uses their boat for a very small number of days a year, typically choosing to sail when conditions are settled. Often nights are spent at a marina or mooring buoy.

Indeed, manufactures will build what they can market at a profit. The accommodation platform is an easy sell.

They take good photos

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[Tranona]

Ah...but of course they will become buyers eventually...once these boats are replaced by the next fashion/technical advances and today's latest boats drop down the food chain.

At every point in the food chain potential buyers have a huge choice and will choose a boat that meets their needs. People who claim that current boats are not for them are unlikely to choose them in the future, if only because they may not live long enough for the value to fall to a level they can afford.

 

[lustyd]

This is true. Manufacturers will build the boats that buyers want.

Unfortunately, the average buyer uses their boat for a very small number of days a year, typically choosing to sail when conditions are settled. Often nights are spent at a marina or mooring buoy.

And some use their boats a lot. Our AWB has done many miles this year and we’ve lived on board since March. Many more modern boats cross oceans than older models, partly because they’re safer and more comfortable. Those saying otherwise almost always lack the experience on board such boats, and often ignore the downsides of older designs, some of which were quite dangerous.

 

[doug748]

You can protest too much. People telling us how wonderful their boats are always seem to be trying to convince themselves.

# 290 would have a mother hold his hand and tell him his boat is just as good as everyone else's

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[lustyd]

You can protest too much. People telling us how wonderful their boats are always seem to be trying to convince themselves.

# 290 would have a mother hold his hand and tell him his boat is just as good as everyone else's

.

I'm quite content with my boat, although I'd definitely prefer it to be 10 feet longer and 20 years newer (with hull windows please!!).

I agree though that those stuck with less modern boats do spend a lot of time trying to convince themselves and others that there isn't a smell, that heeling excessively just to get hull speed and getting drenched in the process are fine, and that cramped accommodation is somehow safer. They always seem to sail solo too for some reason...

 

[johnalison]

I think that we all indulge a bit in self-justification for our decision-making, but that doesn't mean that we can't make valid criticisms of others' choices, at least when it comes to boats. When choosing a boat I found that there were some faults I could live with but others were a no-no. I could not cope with a cockpit that felt insecure and without a comfortable helm position for a start, and I wouldn't want an awkward and unsafe companionway. For me, I would absolutely need to be able to reach the sheets from the helm, and decent hand-holds inside would also be essential. I have no need for a massive amount of space, providing it was adequate, though I would like to have had a longer waterline. Nowadays most boats seem to have a fine entry, which shows that they have learned something, though many forefoots (forefeet?) aren't what I would hope for.