How old a used boat should you buy?

[DreJ]

Sorry for all the posts on here recently but just trying to get as much information as possible

Obviously the question in the title is completely subjective and there is no correct answer, but I wanted to get some opinions on what year range to look for when trying to avoid the depreciation hit but also remain new and modern as possible.

If you have seen any of my recent posts you'll see I'm interested in a 40-50 foot flybridge. If I were to look new, the princess f50 really catches my eye but I think it's a much smarter choice to go for a used boat rather than new, after hearing your advice on the matter.

One issue I have found is, a lot of the big boat-makers seem to stop making certain boats quite quickly, for example on used websites I can find princess 48/49 foot flybridges from only a few years ago yet they are no longer being sold new. There's a few other examples of this. Also, when looking at used boats online, I find that there is hardly any between the 2016-2018 range. It seems they are all either 20 years old or brand new.


After hearing your advice and agreeing that a used boat is definitely best to start out with, is 2015-2018 a good place to start looking? Obviously the older you go the cheaper it will be but I'd like to try to get a new as possible boat while still trying to benefit from avoiding depreciation, which is obviously inevitable whichever year you buy.

Could I get some information on how much these kinds of boats depreciate after a few years? Would a 2 year old boat have experienced the big depreciation hit and therefore any other boats a few years older are more similar? Is the main depreciation like cars as soon as it's bought? How much different would a 3 year old boat cost vs the same model that is 5 years old? I apologise for these questions that don't really have a proper answer just trying to hear everyone's opinions on the topic.

Lastly, for someone whos a big fan of the Princess f50, could I get some recommendations for similar boats to look at between the 2016-2020 range? Would it also be advised against to look into getting a 2019 Princess f50 to start off with? Would you recommend looking older?

Thanks for all the help I've been getting on the forum, I'm very happy to have stumbled on this great hub of information to a new boater like me.

 

[DreJ]

To clarify what I meant in the post, I find it quite confusing looking at used models because there's so many that are no longer being made but are also very similar to ones still in production. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[jrudge]

I used to run a marine finance business. The rule of thumb ( which was only that but not a million miles out) was the boat lost the VAT in year 1 and 10% of its value each year thereafter.

This has limits but gives some idea of what may ( may) happen.

In practice boats also reach a price plateau that they may stay at for many years. after say 10-15 years.

New boats have snags ( as I can attest). The ideal sweet spot is probably a 2 year old boat. Sorted, taken a hit but still new enough.

Your range 2015 - is probably fine - as long as you like the boat.

Boats - rather like cars tend to have evolution and revolution. most "new " boat models are evolutions of the last - until a revolution comes along. Also new "must have" features come along. To name a few. - hi low platforms, stabilisation , hard tops, mid cabins ( some while ago), second stair cases to the master cabin, Portuguese bridges ( seating up front ), galley up / down / back etc. It depends on what you want and if the features are there. Even a well used boat - charter excepted - is likely to see a max of 8-10-12 weeks use a year in most cases so a 5 year old boat well kept should be pretty close to new.

 

[BruceK]

It's actually a great question but hides a hidden trap on older boats. Not so much for you but on 10-15 year plus boats the ongoing maintenance costs come home to roost so whereas you can buy something you couldnt afford new the running maintenance costs can be quite high. You'll often hear 10 percent of the boats value per year but I think this has morphed into 10% of the boats current value when it's more like 10% of it's original value adjusted to today's prices and so a cheap(er) old boat can often have a higher cost of ownership over a mid term than buying newer and riding out the depreciation. That's been my experience anyway.

 

[kashurst]

Agree with all of the above - Most boats tend not to get that much real use. The plus point is even a 15 year old boat will have very little wear if looked after properly. The bad part is that many of them, old or new, spend a lot of time festering - sea air is very corrosive. This tends to create electrical problems, particularly on some of the newer designs with multiplexed electrical systems. These look great and can do some cool things with the lights but they can also be very unreliable (poor design and construction) and difficult to fix. I had a Sealine with the Seaplex system - total nightmare. I sold the boat after 5 years as I couldn't tolerate the unreliability any more. Simple is best on boats - less likely to break, and if it does easy to fix.

This is a bit of a generalisation, however I think boats built between @ 2000 and 2008 are better than 2008 - 2015. Boats in the early 2000's were built to be good boats. Some more recent designs are sometimes good caravans and not always great boats - lots of sharp corners on the interior design to bump into when moving around at sea, overly complex electronic systems that become annoying and hull designs optimised for speed/economy with less power - great on a calm day, not so great when it gets lumpy.

If I was looking for a 45 - 50 foot boat looking to avoid depreciation, I would look for a 2000s boats with a good service history with receipts and spend the money saved on new impellers in every pump on the boat, a proper engine service, replace any flexible fuel or high pressure oil hoses, a fuel injector service, possibly exhaust elbows, strip and clean the engine cooling system properly, have the fuel tanks cleaned, possibly fit new toilets - loo designs have improved and fit a gyroscopic stabiliser. You should be good and reliable for many years after that. Any breakages will thereafter just be minor things like float switches or horns.

However if funds allowed a Ferretti 450 with stabilisers would be perfect. Great design, no silly fold down sides or electric sliding seats, just high quality build, decent quality components and Cummins engines driving shafts. 2017 Ferretti Yachts 450 Power New and Used Boats for Sale -

 

[Portofino]

Your best bet imho ( I did this and it worked ) is to buy a sunseeker from there brokerage and negotiate basically a turn key .

Sunseeker Manhattan 50 – 7231984 – Sunseeker Brokerage

This will hold its value while you gain experience.
There is just one thing nobody’s mentioned up to now ....your 1 st mobo is really a rehearsal for the definitive one ...in the sense you learn what works for you and what does not .Shopping 2 nd time round you quickly eliminate boats as each develops there own personal wish / must have list .
At this stage being a virgin ....it’s difficult for us ( experienced med boaters ) to explain .
So it doesn’t really materially matter which brand or age .
Actually ...your point on prices being all over the place ....it depends more on condition and spec ., maintenance, up grades etc ..less on its year of manufacture .Hope this makes sense of the listings you have been click baiting ?

I picked this one ^^^ for the rest of the package
1- well specced
2- well maintained.
3- typical FB 50
4- fantastic motors those MAN 800 s in that ...=....strong Residuals by those in the know
5- S/Skr will arrsnge a berth in Fr
6- S/Skr ( or you independently ) will arrange a skipper / tutor * to deliver it to the CdA while you + family are on it .
7- depreciation minimal imho

* Could be done without you .
Could be done with RYA course as the practice .

Once on your berth S/Sker will arrange another guy for daily tuition and “mothering “ .
I bought mine from Poole , S/Sker organised everything ( back in 2005 ) ....transport to La Napoule , insurance , tuition , warranty work , ....later service and gardienage ....to look after it when you are not there , arrange a diver before you arrive to scub the stern gear ...,even fill the fridge and sort the laundry etc etc
I already had a berth , but they can fix that ,
Hot tip the boat dealers somehow can find berths for there clients .

If you go it alone then you are 10x multiplying the process verging on hassle to as a newby organise all of the above .

As said once you have learnt it all on your hat 50 .....seen a few others gorged yourself at the show @ Cannes ( S/Sker complimentary tickets + bubbly ) ......then and only then change boats ....you will have two list .
1- things you don’t like .
2- things you want / like ,......thing is we cant help you with this .

 

[bluetooth]

Dont be scared of buying old.
My last 2 boats have been 12 years old with massive depreciation done. Well built boats stay well built. Just make sure engine/drive parts have been serviced with receipts.
Everything else can be fixed or upgraded as u see fit.
BUT I was prepared and happy to accept at this age lots of bits will need fixing esp turbos, s/chargers, alternator and batteries.
Furniture inc canopies are all subjective on appearance and functionality.
When u compare to a new purchase the difference is massive. As with most things in life its personal choices and knowledge.
Good hunting

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I have bought and sold a number of used boats over the years, 14 and counting. My personal rule is buy at 5yrs old and sell at 10yrs old on the basis that at 5yrs old, boats have done most of their depreciating and will have had their early teething problems sorted. By 10yrs old youre potentially getting into a period where there is a risk that major components start to need replacement and if youre really unlucky, you get major engine problems. Having said this, my current boat is 14yrs old this year and I intend to keep her for a couple of years longer but that is an exception because I bought her as a 1 owner 7yr old boat which had been exceptionally well looked after by a full time skipper and I have continued that care and attention

Yes, 2015-18 is a good age period to buy. You could even go a couple of years older providing the boat has been well looked after. A boat of this age should really look as good as new and if it doesnt walk away from it. As ever get a full survey done before you complete the sale

 

[ari]

Condition and hours are more important than the year. I'll take a fastidiously maintained and run 2010 boat with 500 hours on it over an under serviced and under used 2015 boat with 50 hours on it.

It's lack of use and lack of maintenance that kills boats, not a year or two either way. .

 

[lisilou]

Personally, I’d never choose to buy brand new if there were used available in the model you like. I’d opt for between 2-4 years old (budget allowing) for reasons already stated: initial depreciation hit & the snagging has been ironed out. As long as it’s got a full service history & been generally well maintained, for me used is a no brainier.
L

 

[Seastoke]

Personally, I’d never choose to buy brand new if there were used available in the model you like. I’d opt for between 2-4 years old (budget allowing) for reasons already stated: initial depreciation hit & the snagging has been ironed out. As long as it’s got a full service history & been generally well maintained, for me used is a no brainier.
L

I thought you bought new last boat.

 

[t21]

Agree with all of the above - Most boats tend not to get that much real use. The plus point is even a 15 year old boat will have very little wear if looked after properly. The bad part is that many of them, old or new, spend a lot of time festering - sea air is very corrosive. This tends to create electrical problems, particularly on some of the newer designs with multiplexed electrical systems. These look great and can do some cool things with the lights but they can also be very unreliable (poor design and construction) and difficult to fix. I had a Sealine with the Seaplex system - total nightmare. I sold the boat after 5 years as I couldn't tolerate the unreliability any more. Simple is best on boats - less likely to break, and if it does easy to fix.

This is a bit of a generalisation, however I think boats built between @ 2000 and 2008 are better than 2008 - 2015. Boats in the early 2000's were built to be good boats. Some more recent designs are sometimes good caravans and not always great boats - lots of sharp corners on the interior design to bump into when moving around at sea, overly complex electronic systems that become annoying and hull designs optimised for speed/economy with less power - great on a calm day, not so great when it gets lumpy.

If I was looking for a 45 - 50 foot boat looking to avoid depreciation, I would look for a 2000s boats with a good service history with receipts and spend the money saved on new impellers in every pump on the boat, a proper engine service, replace any flexible fuel or high pressure oil hoses, a fuel injector service, possibly exhaust elbows, strip and clean the engine cooling system properly, have the fuel tanks cleaned, possibly fit new toilets - loo designs have improved and fit a gyroscopic stabiliser. You should be good and reliable for many years after that. Any breakages will thereafter just be minor things like float switches or horns.

However if funds allowed a Ferretti 450 with stabilisers would be perfect. Great design, no silly fold down sides or electric sliding seats, just high quality build, decent quality components and Cummins engines driving shafts. 2017 Ferretti Yachts 450 Power New and Used Boats for Sale -

I agree, esp the shift sideways and back a bit in boat design post gfc even more towards liveable, loveable, slightly flimsier but meh, most boats don’t get much of a beating

 

[DreJ]

Your best bet imho ( I did this and it worked ) is to buy a sunseeker from there brokerage and negotiate basically a turn key .

Sunseeker Manhattan 50 – 7231984 – Sunseeker Brokerage

This will hold its value while you gain experience.
There is just one thing nobody’s mentioned up to now ....your 1 st mobo is really a rehearsal for the definitive one ...in the sense you learn what works for you and what does not .Shopping 2 nd time round you quickly eliminate boats as each develops there own personal wish / must have list .
At this stage being a virgin ....it’s difficult for us ( experienced med boaters ) to explain .
So it doesn’t really materially matter which brand or age .
Actually ...your point on prices being all over the place ....it depends more on condition and spec ., maintenance, up grades etc ..less on its year of manufacture .Hope this makes sense of the listings you have been click baiting ?

I picked this one ^^^ for the rest of the package
1- well specced
2- well maintained.
3- typical FB 50
4- fantastic motors those MAN 800 s in that ...=....strong Residuals by those in the know
5- S/Skr will arrsnge a berth in Fr
6- S/Skr ( or you independently ) will arrange a skipper / tutor * to deliver it to the CdA while you + family are on it .
7- depreciation minimal imho

* Could be done without you .
Could be done with RYA course as the practice .

Once on your berth S/Sker will arrange another guy for daily tuition and “mothering “ .
I bought mine from Poole , S/Sker organised everything ( back in 2005 ) ....transport to La Napoule , insurance , tuition , warranty work , ....later service and gardienage ....to look after it when you are not there , arrange a diver before you arrive to scub the stern gear ...,even fill the fridge and sort the laundry etc etc
I already had a berth , but they can fix that ,
Hot tip the boat dealers somehow can find berths for there clients .

If you go it alone then you are 10x multiplying the process verging on hassle to as a newby organise all of the above .

As said once you have learnt it all on your hat 50 .....seen a few others gorged yourself at the show @ Cannes ( S/Sker complimentary tickets + bubbly ) ......then and only then change boats ....you will have two list .
1- things you don’t like .
2- things you want / like ,......thing is we cant help you with this .

Thank you Porto this is very useful information. I will definitely look into doing something like this. Any particular reason you suggest Sunseeker? Would it be just as wise to do a similar thing with a different brokerage like Princess or Fairline for example?

 

[Portofino]

Those 3 are all in La Napoule , the CdA franchises for Princess and Fairline .I know both dealer principles.
Both nice enough they should be able to juggle , the purchase , berth, tuition , Gardianarge, and maintenance.
I think the S/Sker is more of a group business modal hence to Spanish link to a Hat 50 , that broker even thought he s done the sake , would liaise with the Fr team who would organise the rest ....that’s the reason I picked them .
Perhaps you ought to ( travel plans permitting? ) pop along to La Nap and have a few face to faces .
The S/Sker maintenance and after sales is the best as there tech dept is very near La Nap and vans leave every day .As said it’s a bigger set up and Eng run ,
The Prinny guys are a Fr family the Le Bruns ,
Bart Van HueVal is your contact for FL ...pleasant Dutch guy with a can do attitude .

But as I said and many others ^^^ Don,t hang your hat on your first Med Mobo ....consider it just a stepping stone .Brand is irrelevant as we can not know what’s gonna work or not for you .....and neither do you .

 

[jrudge]

Thank you Porto this is very useful information. I will definitely look into doing something like this. Any particular reason you suggest Sunseeker? Would it be just as wise to do a similar thing with a different brokerage like Princess or Fairline for example?

There are benefits to the above approach - berth etc - but this all comes at a price. So turnkey. Yes. Get your money back ? I would say no. When you sell there is brokers commission and whilst someone will always pipe up with an exception boats go down in value not up. Those that sell for more then they paid bought well - buying turnkey from a dealer is unlikely to put you in that position unless it is stock they are desperate to shift - which from time to time does happen

 

[Portofino]

By way of example I had a mate , part ex his sea ray in La Nap for a Porto 47 with the S/Sker team .
Boat was deep down in Italy and it was February.
So the whole package was negotiated by the la Nap guys at a fixed price .
Part ex ....or the diff in £ to change up .
Del trip .
Full engine / mech service .
Birth
Gardian.
Maintenance pre season while he was in the U.K. .

All he did was write 1 cheque .
Then pay the monthly berth fee which was a deal @ £1 K pcm .
SunSeeker have a wider access to berths .

Another mate a serial S/Skr owner with a Villa in Grimaud.
Moved down from a Pred 72 as too big in fact for him + wife .He used to hire a skipper mostly so he could enjoy it more when it was based in St Trop .
Bought a San Remo 48 avec IPS for the pod / joystick ease of berthing .
A bit shy manoeuvring as wife had movement issues ...could not do the fenders anymore .
So he still hired a skipper .But S/Sker did the rest gave him a pick of berths in La Nap etc and did the rest .

Incidentally there was never a moment last season in the evening wh we were sipping rose before going out to dinner , that a tech of some sort or another was not fiddling around inc the VP guys ....who are also based ( the CdA HQ ) at la Napoule .
He lost a few day’s phaffing about with the electrotwackery .

 

[Portofino]

There are benefits to the above approach - berth etc - but this all comes at a price. So turnkey. Yes. Get your money back ? I would say no. When you sell there is brokers commission and whilst someone will always pipe up with an exception boats go down in value not up. Those that sell for more then they paid bought well - buying turnkey from a dealer is unlikely to put you in that position unless it is stock they are desperate to shift - which from time to time does happen

These were brokerage boats , but the S/Sker lot seem to work en mass .
Just gives him a wider choice ...they broker all brands .
The £1K pcm was the same as I currently rent out for €17K + .Same pontoon in fact
So had he gone it alone ..and found one via the marina office ? ..It’s part of the sakes patter i guess .
Sat in the chair opposite broker in a nice air conditioned office it’s nice to know what others are paying for the same thing .
Ironically it’s Flairline who are my tenant .
My ex neighbours inform me ( still in touch ) what’s going on .

I think with berths being difficult I guess the CdA guys use there “vast experience “ to sweeten a deal even if it’s a lost leader .
Say 12/12 as the punter is planning moving anyhow it’s worth subing the berth I guess ?

 

[t21]

Fab experience above, took me years to get close haha

 

[lisilou]

I thought you bought new last boat.

Hi Seastoke.
We did yes but only because the model was brand new to the market so no choice to go used Unfortunately.
L

 

[Firefly625]

Buy the best made of anything and it will last the test of time.... my boat is 22 years old this year and the longer I have it the more I think it may be the last boat I ever own... (so its got to do another 35 years..)