How often do you use a spinnaker

[sighmoon]

Dead downwind in anything less than a F3. It's poetry; you can't not.

 

[Sybarite]

I remember watching a French boat come into the Port St Louis marina under spinnaker. Once inside the crew dropped the spi, jibed around and came up into the finger berth without the engine. Very impressed was I.

 

[LittleSister]

I don't think I've set a spinnaker since the mid-90s! Even then it was only a few times when a boat I then had happened to come with one (I wish I'd hung on to it).

Having not previously had any experience of, or training in, spinnaker use, and usually sailing single or short-handed, I would only put it up if the wind was very light and I had at least a couple of hours run to do, as it would take me about half an hour to rig up the pole (cruising style, with three lines to it so I could dowse the spinny and leave the pole in place if need be) and the various lines, etc.

My latest boat came with a spinnaker, which I suspect came from another boat and, indeed, another age. I haven't yet tried it out, but I hope to before too long if I can lash up or borrow a pole long enough.

Of course spinnakers and cruising chutes are only one answer to light winds. On a friend's somewhat unconventional junk-rigger schooner years ago we had a random selection of spare sails from other boats that in light winds we would rig as 'water sails' under the booms. We later added a lashed up bowsprit to fly a foresail from the unstayed fore-mast, and a small mizzen (third) mast on the stern with small gaff-rigged sail overhanging the transom, both only flown in light winds.

 

[geem]

I don't think I've set a spinnaker since the mid-90s! Even then it was only a few times when a boat I then had happened to come with one (I wish I'd hung on to it).

Having not previously had any experience of, or training in, spinnaker use, and usually sailing single or short-handed, I would only put it up if the wind was very light and I had at least a couple of hours run to do, as it would take me about half an hour to rig up the pole (cruising style, with three lines to it so I could dowse the spinny and leave the pole in place if need be) and the various lines, etc.

My latest boat came with a spinnaker, which I suspect came from another boat and, indeed, another age. I haven't yet tried it out, but I hope to before too long if I can lash up or borrow a pole long enough.

Of course spinnakers and cruising chutes are only one answer to light winds. On a friend's somewhat unconventional junk-rigger schooner years ago we had a random selection of spare sails from other boats that in light winds we would rig as 'water sails' under the booms. We later added a lashed up bowsprit to fly a foresail from the unstayed fore-mast, and a small mizzen (third) mast on the stern with small gaff-rigged sail overhanging the transom, both only flown in light winds.

When we got our current boat it came equiped with a symmetric spinnaker. We tried it a couple of times but it was the most horrible, unstable thing imaginable. We replaced it with a larger asymmetric that we also set on a pole. The difference in stability is amazing. It pulls like a train and dead down wind set on the pole it out performs any cruising chute or Parasail. We fly it with just me and the wife. 160m2. We use a snuffer and always have the main set so we have a lee to drop it in

 

[LittleSister]

When we got our current boat it came equiped with a symmetric spinnaker. We tried it a couple of times but it was the most horrible, unstable thing imaginable. We replaced it with a larger asymmetric that we also set on a pole. The difference in stability is amazing. It pulls like a train and dead down wind set on the pole it out performs any cruising chute or Parasail. We fly it with just me and the wife. 160m2. We use a snuffer and always have the main set so we have a lee to drop it in

I'd love a cruising chute or asymmetric spinnaker (I'm still not clear on the difference/respective merits), but when I balance the cost of one of those versus the options of going slower or putting the engine on, the latter win out.

 

[ibbo]

They bring the boat alive don't they. We only use it on longer trips, if I think it will be up over an hour then it's worth the hassle. Best ever is 14hours coming back from Ireland.
Brill.

 

[geem]

They bring the boat alive don't they. We only use it on longer trips, if I think it will be up over an hour then it's worth the hassle. Best ever is 14hours coming back from Ireland.
Brill.

Our record is 36hrs straight. They can transform the motion of the boat in light winds and bumpy seas. Getting the boat powered up on a Spinnaker can make such a huge difference to motion and comfort aboard on a long passage?

 

[Jonny A]

It depends on the boat, but one designed for a spinnaker is going to be much more comfortable and faster going deep downwind than relying on white sails or a chute.

I flew my spinnaker single handed for the first time on Saturday and it went up and came down a dream. But on my own I probably wouldn't bother unless I knew I was going to be flying it for at least 30 minutes.

 

[ithet]

To add a question - does anyone pole out to windward the tack of their asymmetric in order to run deeper downwind (as per the John Goode/PBO demonstrations of a few years ago)? Does this work?

 

[Deleted member 478]

To add a question - does anyone pole out to windward the tack of their asymmetric in order to run deeper downwind (as per the John Goode/PBO demonstrations of a few years ago)? Does this work?

Yep, the result can be seen in #2

 

[awol]

Yes, but you need control of the pole so guy, uphaul, downhaul instead of tack line are needed

 

[ryanroberts]

Have a fancy looking top down furling cruising chute and no bloody idea how to use it, I'd be trying to rustle up club membership / crew / own boat tuition for some of these ..details but bit tricky in a Pandemic.

 

[prv]

To add a question - does anyone pole out to windward the tack of their asymmetric in order to run deeper downwind (as per the John Goode/PBO demonstrations of a few years ago)? Does this work?

I’ve tried it, but I only have a whisker pole for the genoa (rarely used) which isn’t as strong as a proper spinnaker pole so I’d only attempt it in very light winds. I also don’t have a pole uphaul, so it tends to droop. And with the tack of the asymmetric raised up so much higher than the stemhead, the luff is really too long.

So on my boat, it sort of works but not really. Just enough to show me that a symmetric one is really what I need

Pete

 

[lw395]

To add a question - does anyone pole out to windward the tack of their asymmetric in order to run deeper downwind (as per the John Goode/PBO demonstrations of a few years ago)? Does this work?

In light airs, it is often not necessary or beneficial, as heading up to fill the asy will be quicker.
As the wind increases, the boatspeed gain won't be so great, so the apparent wind won't move forwards enough. So poling out can be useful.
How useful will depend on the size of the kite, windstrength, size of main, hull design, you name it....


There are times when you want to run dead downwind, like in a narrow channel or to stay out of tide, but that's often not a good time to be faffing with complex pole arrangements.

 

[Stemar]

There are times when you want to run dead downwind, like in a narrow channel or to stay out of tide, but that's often not a good time to be faffing with complex pole arrangements.

Agreed. Even goosewinged with a poled out genny takes a while to get sorted - you really don't want to have to change course in a hurry!

 

[Laminar Flow]

But each to his own. I may just be a wimp...

Yes, precisely the kind of nonsense we got when I proposed flying a chute on our tubby motorsailer!
Sort of like pointing out formula 1 crashes when suggesting a weekend outing using the family station wagon.

 

[TLouth7]

does anyone pole out to windward the tack of their asymmetric in order to run deeper downwind

Regularly, it works really well for us. If you have an adjustable tack line then this can become the foreguy. You just need to rig a guy (we use a mooring warp) through the pole, bowline onto the tack, ease the tackline and winch the guy in.

We can also run goosewinged with the chute poled out like a genoa:

 

[Concerto]

Thanks guys for the likes to my earlier post. I thought I could add some more information to help those afraid of spinnakers. A spinnaker can be held from on the beam right round to the opposite beam, whereas a cruising chute is roughly 120 to 160 degrees from either bow. You cannot dead run effectively with cruising chute with a mainsail set.

On my Fulmar the spinnaker is smaller than on a masthead rig as she is ¾ rigged, but I am singlehanded. All the control lines are led aft to the cockpit for easy control. I should stress I look to sail on fairly long legs with minimal gybing and plenty of clear water. The boat is being sailed on autopilot. Once I have prepared the pole and lines, I roll the genoa away. I then lash the launch bag close to the bow, pull the guy and clip to the clew and the same with the sheet. Then I will set the pole to approximately the right height and angle to the wind (roughtly at right angles) using the guy so the spinnaker tack is at the pole and the pole downhaul is locked off. Now I attach the spinnaker halyard and open the top of the bag. Now I quickly raise the spinnaker and lock the halyard off. The sheet should be quite loose and can now be tensioned. The sail should be set as free as possible to the point the luff can curl in slightly before it curls back. Now you can adjust the pole height to get the clews level and square to the apparent wind. Not forgetting to keep the downhaul tight to stop the pole lifting.

When it comes to dropping the spinnaker there is one thing that makes it all very easy. The sail can be killed of wind by bringing it behind the mainsail. I do this with a snatch block I fix near the end of the coachroof. Then I trip the guy from the pole and sheet in tight. To drop I keep one turn of halyard round the winch and this has sufficient grip to allow it to drop at a reasonable speed whilst you gather it all in a dump in the cockpit. Then I unfurl the genoa, get the boat sailing properly and then sort out the spinnaker into the bag again making there is no twist in by following both edges. Finally drop the pole and sort out the lines. Using this method I have never got the spinnaker wet.



This is what a nicely set spinnaker should look like. There was about 12 to 14 knots true windspeed at the time and was about 130 to 140 off the bow. I was sailing at about 6½ to 7 knots.



This is the the boat that took the next photo. She was a very well sailed Dutch Bavaria 36. You can see she has a poled out genoa, but she could not match my 32ft Fulmar for boat speed. I even sailed through his lee and it did not slow me down. This was off Hove and we were both heading for Eastbourne, so were able to exchange photos when he finally arrived about half an hour after me. So anyone who says a spinnaker does not add any speed over a genoa is talking rubbish. The difference in boat speed was huge, especially when you consider the Bavaria was 4 ft longer overall and probably 5 to 6 ft longer on the waterline. All these photos were taken on mobile phones on the 7 July 2017 and the one below has been cropped and twisted to get the horizon level. It also shows I was singlehanded.

 

[Channel Sailor]

Here you go In the pic, using tweakers (twings i
n the USA) mean that gybing is easier. Not long after this was taken I gybed to away from the shore to find more wind and clear the headland, then had to Gybe again after a while to avoid a Container ship in a narrow channel turning in front of me.
Those video clips of spinnaker fails have a couple of common themes, in most of them it is very windy, the others have a lot of crew (there are less errors made on my yacht when solo compared to occasional crew onboard). In light wind I would guess the only way to rip a typical spinnaker on a typical cruising yacht is if the crew pull far too hard it in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, you do need to be 1) organised and 2) be in control because you have a technique that works and you know why it works. In light air if for example spinnaker halyard does not run free enough (or too freely) then yes you may have a hassle to deal with but it will not be a fright.

I once had a quick release halyard shackle quick release on its own because I reckon the pin pull cord got caught on something near the top of the mast or it was not quite made. The spinnaker fell into the water, but in light air, a not very large sail and a not very fast yacht meant it was just a hassle, not a disaster worthy of a YouTube clip.

 

[lw395]

Agreed. Even goosewinged with a poled out genny takes a while to get sorted - you really don't want to have to change course in a hurry!

It seems t o me that some YM instructors can make more work and complication with poling out a genoa than setting a proper spinnaker.
It's great if you're headed for a different time zone, not so great when you're about to meet rush hour on Southampton Water.