How much to offer vs. broker's asking price?

[Tranona]

That sounds like good general advice, particularly the 'now' bit. Buying boats appears to be like moving out of London or going travelling - lots of people talk about it compared to the numbers who actually do it. In this case I seem to need not ultimately the best boat, but the best boat for my purposes, which narrows it a lot. For once the money gods are with me - it appears a MK1 outboard Shrimper (the cheapest of the breed) is what I need. They appear to be the variety regarded as best for club racing, which I've identified as my main purpose. An outboard boat also leaves the electric option open, and I have no plans to be slogging through big seas under engine, or motoring distances ditto.

Some might be thinking 'Why would you want to race a Shrimper?' Well, all 19s have the same handicap which makes it more 'boat against boat', and like Morris dancers, they're a sociable bunch. I hope to learn a lot. The finish time spread in a Shrimper racing can be huge, which suggests at the slow end there's people possibly no better than me racing them. At the fast end there's some seriously good sailors to watch and (hopefully) learn from.

I live in Poole and am surrounded by Shrimpers, both in Poole Yacht Club where I belong and Parkstone and RMYC. If friendly racing and coastal cruising is your aim and not bothered by outright speed you really can't go wrong. £10-12k buys you a boat that requires minimal maintenance once you have it up to scratch and will keep its value.

 

[SoulFireMage]

History! since then prices on average have risen 15-20% and there is a shortage of good boats. I sold my boat in January for about 15% more than I expected and not much less than I paid new 6 years previously. including mine 4 sold in a 3 month period all for much the same price and all for the asking price.

I am afraid you will be disappointed of you think you will get a good boat for significantly less than asking price unless you wait a few weeks and it remains unsold - and if it is there is probably something wring with it. Of course this situation may well change over the next few months when inflation and stagnation start to bite, but at the moment it is a sellers market (unlike 2-3 years ago).

Sadly, this appears rather accurate.

From a potential buyer point of view, this current market is a rather miserable setup. Not enough boats, all overpriced by - well to me - over 20% and not much negotiation.

It's a great seller's market for sure but I keep hoping it will run out of wealthy buyers soon!

No bias of course ?

 

[Uricanejack]

I’ve been contemplating a boat purchase in the UK. My observation sellers market at the moment lots of boats interested me a couple of years ago and took a long time to sell now not very many boats for sale. often none which are of interest to me.
My plan is to by sail for while sell again, don’t really want to be stuck bying high and be unable to sell. So waiting for the market to cool and choice to increase.
As to what to offer, I would start by asking if they are open to offers and offering less. How much less, how long is a piece of string.
if they are not open to offer, move on wait for the next one. If it’s already under offer move on wait for the next one.
if on the other hand it’s the perfect boat you just have to have, offer what yo7 think is reasonable.
personaly
I’ve bought boats for cash and a handshake. I knew the seller and knew the price was reasonable and it was not expensive..
other 2 had been for sale for a long time. I asked if t.hey would be interested in an offer.
I offered a lot less and bought both boats. I still have one of them.
Not sure what I want to do with it.Sell and by nicer. Or spend some cash refit and keep.
It was an old cheep boat when I bought it. It will still be an old cheep boat ither way.

 

[Refueler]

Make offer you think you can get away with ... then go look at another boat.

Whenever looking at boats ... I always turn over in my mind what I expect to pay out to sort the boat out ... deduct from the asking price .. run it around inside my head and then decide whether I want to make offer or not.

More often than not .. I decide to walk away .... basically because seller has rosy specs about his 'pride and joy' he's selling.

 

[xyachtdave]

Kicking someone in the goolies when buying and then bragging about it appears to be the norm in the UK. Same with selling, I paid x and sold it for x +y.

It’s man’s ancient Hunter gatherer gene shining through into the modern world. Me got bargain.

Yacht sales do seem work strangely though, selling a J-80 a few years ago via the agent in Hamble.

A year has passed and not one enquiry. I suggest £21k is too much of an ask.

‘It’s not overpriced, there’s just no buyers in the market now’ and ‘we don’t want to start a price drop on these’

They had at least 6 for sale, some of the others sold and ours didn’t, then you find out some of them have been taken in part exchange against new boats, hence a much more motivated proposition for the broker, to get his £20k back or just £1500 of commission.

Plus our boat was attracting storage costs in a field, so no rush for them to move it on.

We gave up and sold it ourselves to another club member for £14k. Although I sailed it on during a regatta a few years later and the new owner did the above bragging about how little he’d paid for it.

So bargains are out there to be found.

This strategy only works if you’re after a bargain rather than a specific boat.

Anyone offering more than 10% less on a sensibly priced well maintained boat - straight to time waster/ignore status for me.

 

[Refueler]

A boat is only worth what a buyer will pay.

Simple fact.

 

[Maxra]

There seems to be one other factor waiting in the wings for larger older boats than the ones I'm looking at - increasing awareness of the cost of scrapping an old fibreglass hull. I saw this quoted 2-3 years ago as something like £1,000 per 10 feet. That suggests a 30 footer could be a -£3000 liability when it reaches its final harbour.

 

[Refueler]

There seems to be one other factor waiting in the wings for larger older boats than the ones I'm looking at - increasing awareness of the cost of scrapping an old fibreglass hull. I saw this quoted 2-3 years ago as something like £1,000 per 10 feet. That suggests a 30 footer could be a -£3000 liability when it reaches its final harbour.

For a GRP hull to be only suitable to scrap - it has to be seriously derelict. GRP unlike wood is a hardy long life product.

 

[jac]

There seems to be one other factor waiting in the wings for larger older boats than the ones I'm looking at - increasing awareness of the cost of scrapping an old fibreglass hull. I saw this quoted 2-3 years ago as something like £1,000 per 10 feet. That suggests a 30 footer could be a -£3000 liability when it reaches its final harbour.

That maybe the case on a 30 footer that’s 50-60 years old and rather tired but one might still be able to pick up a basically functionping boat for a few k use for a few years and then flog on eBay for a couple of hundred and sidestep any disposal costs

 

[Tranona]

There seems to be one other factor waiting in the wings for larger older boats than the ones I'm looking at - increasing awareness of the cost of scrapping an old fibreglass hull. I saw this quoted 2-3 years ago as something like £1,000 per 10 feet. That suggests a 30 footer could be a -£3000 liability when it reaches its final harbour.

Well trod subject. It is certainly expensive to dismantle and dispose of a GRP boat, but so far the number that actually get to that stage is small as there has been a steady stream of people who think they can get an old boat going again. So they sit around in yards, fields, back gardens etc, advertised on ebay until many are abandoned and become a problem for usually the land owner. There are professional boat dismantlers and some end up with them, but there is no real long term solution and many of the last owners do every thing they can to avoid their responsibilities.

 

[Wansworth]

Small yard where Ikept my boat used an electrical saw and chomped boats into manageable flat bits and binned them

 

[gordmac]

A boat is only worth what a buyer will pay.

Simple fact.

I would suggest that is only true if there is a sale. Otherwise the value lies somewhere between refused offer and asking price.

 

[oldgit]

Go and look at everything that is on the market that might fit the bill.
When the right boat does appear at the end of the pontoon it might just help to make a quick decision to not lose the sale
In a hurry ? the market price , awaits.

For those with little more patience a diligent search might lead to a boat which has not yet been bought to the attention of the open market, they are out there, and not just the old heaps and wrecks.
The good stuff , at least in our club, is sold pretty quickly privately and only the really posh expensive stuff and old tired well past its sink by date usually gets listed
Not all boat owners want to squeeze the last farthing out of a sale especially if they are selling selling privately and no broker involvement.
A friendly buyer and a willingness to make sure the boat goes to good home still count for much.
Its just finding that boat.

 

[Uricanejack]

A boat is only worth what a buyer will pay.

Simple fact.

Na
Mine has a surveyed and insured value much higher than wot I paid or anybody else would pay.. All you need is a wee bit of @#$&*( lightning.
happenz every so often.

 

[Refueler]

Its always worth visiting Clubs that have size / type of boat interested in ... not unknown for a boat to be for sale or owner thinking about it.

 

[ghostlymoron]

This is a question that's been asked many times on here and there's really no straight answer. Buying a boat (or anything really - car, house, hifi) is a matter of negotiation between buyer and seller. If you buy from a shop, the shopkeeper offers the goods at a fixed price and you either accept and pay it or not. With cars, houses and boats the goods are offered at a price inviting lower offers which the purchaser may make depending on age, condition and selling price for similar items.
There's no simple formula for this, sellers usually over estimate the value of THEIR boat and buyers usually want to buy as cheap as possible. Brokers are torn between getting a higher price and making a quick sale (they get their commission based on selling price)
I'd say try 20% below asking price and take it from there. Don't worry about upsetting the vendor - no one is going to refuse to deal with you if you've got money in your pocket!

 

[xyachtdave]

Don't worry about upsetting the vendor - no one is going to refuse to deal with you if you've got money in your pocket!

Hey, nobody here!

I'd refuse to deal with you.

 

[Mister E]

Hey, nobody here!

I'd refuse to deal with you.

I actually told a Broker not to sell to one person, no matter how much they offered.
I didnt think he was doing me a favour.

 

[Maxra]

I'm discovering there is a type of owner which I personally hadn't encountered or even read about much before - the person who is either too busy, or just can't be bothered with the hassle, of doing anything but sailing. So, he/she gets the yard to do everything needed every year, and then asks them to sell the boat when they're through with it. No criticism of that - it's what most people do with their cars after all. Some Shrimper owners appear to be of this variety. I think sometimes the choice is getting 'chaps' to deal with all the maintenance of a small boat rather than run and fix a larger one yourself. When you read articles in the yachting comics about the delights of fixing blocked bogs and dealing with diesel bug, it doesn't sound such a bad idea...

 

[SoulFireMage]

I've come across the type of owner this year who absolutely believes he should get every penny he paid, plus anything he's repaired/installed and ignore the fact the boat is a few years older than when he got it.

As a result, they've annoyed the broker acting for them by refusing many many offers, some quite sensible. Even in this crazy a$$ market, that's pushing it.

Bless him, it's his very first boat!