How much does a luff stretch?

[isandell]

I expect this is like asking how long is a piece of string, but I am trying to get some figures for how much a jib luff might stretch over its lifetime.

I have just taken delivery of a new furling genoa. Unfortunately the sailmaker has made the luff 150mm too long. On the pontoon, I can tension the luff with a tadge to spare, but probably wont know how bit a tadge until we take the boat sailing.

The genoa is Chinese made from "cruise laminate", tri radial, 10.7m luff, 5.3m foot and perpendicular 5.0m.

We rarely race but use the sail for about 40 days/year for cruising in all weathers.

I am concerned that I could use the sail for a year or three and then find that I cannot tension the luff. Do I have reasonable ground for seeking the sailmaker to rectify the mistake now (which I suspect will mean a battle with the sailmaker and at best missing most of this season before it's sorted).

Any thoughts?

Ian

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

I once received a sail with the luff too long. Rang the sailmaker who arranged for courier to pick up same day, an.d retu.rned two days later- corrected with no charge. Suggest approach sailmaker without delay. Problem may be easily sorted

 

[VicS]

I have just taken delivery of a new furling genoa. Unfortunately the sailmaker has made the luff 150mm too long.
Any thoughts?

Ian

Don't take any chances with it.

If its been made to the incorrect dimensions take it straight back!

 

[Woodlouse]

It's a new sail, you might as well get it right else you'll always regret it.

 

[isandell]

Thanks Guys,

I too have had sails made incorrectly and the sailmaker has always rectified them, but it can be a nuisance having pack them, wait for couriers, being without the sail etc.

I was hoping them I could get some evedience of how much the luff will stretch to see if the sail is suitable for my boat or not.

My perspection is the on this size sail, we would be looking at a few cm, maybe 5cm at most.

Thanks

Ian

 

[bedouin]

If it has a wire luff then it won't stretch much at all. Probably no more than 2mm per metre of luff length.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Foil fed sails left under tension on a roller,can grow upto 120mm,in a season .Iif the sail was incorrectly measured and made to long by the sailmaker ,you should get it fixed and sorted.Asap and FOC.

 

[Tranona]

You don't say why and how it ended up too long. Did they measure your boat, did you provide the measurements or have they just taken the data from another source? That is a large amount to get such a key dimension wrong.

 

[nigelmercier]

I think my new main sail was made 1% undersize to allow for stretch.

 

[Daydream believer]

Foil fed sails left under tension on a roller,can grow upto 120mm,in a season .Iif the sail was incorrectly measured and made to long by the sailmaker ,you should get it fixed and sorted.Asap and FOC.

Left under tension !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Daydream believer]

The genoa is Chinese made from "cruise laminate", tri radial, 10.7m luff, 5.3m foot and perpendicular 5.0m.

Those dims do not seem correct because if the foot was 5.3 & the leech ( I assume that is what you mean by perpendicular) was 5.0 & luff 10.7 ----- you could not make a triangle. Or am i reading that wrong?

In any event send it back --although sailmaker may have taken the luff to be the cloth size not including the head cringle & the clip or loop at the foot of the sail. On 2 of my sails that amounts to another 100/125mm. On my latest laminate sail I specified it to be cut so that the clip at the foot was flush with the cloth & the cringle at the head was fairly tight to the sail cloth so that i got max sail area for luff length

 

[nigelmercier]

Those dims do not seem correct because if the foot was 5.3 & the leech ( I assume that is what you mean by perpendicular) was 5.0 & luff 10.7 ----- you could not make a triangle. Or am i reading that wrong?

You are reading it wrong

The 5.0m perpendicular measurement is from the clew to the luff, cutting the latter at 90 degrees.

 

[Daydream believer]

You are reading it wrong

The 5.0m perpendicular measurement is from the clew to the luff, cutting the latter at 90 degrees.

Of course - perpendicular of the triangle
Its years since i went to school
sorry

 

[isandell]

I expect this is like asking how long is a piece of string, but I am trying to get some figures for how much a jib luff might stretch over its lifetime.

I have just taken delivery of a new furling genoa. Unfortunately the sailmaker has made the luff 150mm too long. On the pontoon, I can tension the luff with a tadge to spare, but probably wont know how bit a tadge until we take the boat sailing.

The genoa is Chinese made from "cruise laminate", tri radial, 10.7m luff, 5.3m foot and perpendicular 5.0m.

We rarely race but use the sail for about 40 days/year for cruising in all weathers.

I am concerned that I could use the sail for a year or three and then find that I cannot tension the luff. Do I have reasonable ground for seeking the sailmaker to rectify the mistake now (which I suspect will mean a battle with the sailmaker and at best missing most of this season before it's sorted).

Any thoughts?

Ian

Just an update on this.

Following unanimous advice here, and closer inspection of the sail, I have approached the sailmaker asking him to rectify the sail (there are several other problem areas).

Unfortunateley, he is not responding to email, voicemail or recorded deliver letter. I guess it's legal proceeding next or kiss goodbye to £1300. Off to see Citizens Advice later this week.

Ian

 

[Daydream believer]

If you are member of RYA their solicitor will do it for free
They got my money back from Goacher sails very quickly after I was getting nowhere

 

[Tranona]

Just an update on this.

Following unanimous advice here, and closer inspection of the sail, I have approached the sailmaker asking him to rectify the sail (there are several other problem areas).

Unfortunateley, he is not responding to email, voicemail or recorded deliver letter. I guess it's legal proceeding next or kiss goodbye to £1300. Off to see Citizens Advice later this week.

Ian

Assuming he is based in this country, suggest you write recorded delivery explaining your concerns about the product and asking what they intend doing to correct the errors and giving them a fixed time limit, say 14 days to respond. Say that you will reject the product if they do not rectify it. Appreciate you have already sent a letter and had no response, but it is important that the letter is clear about what you want within your rights and you set a firm time limit. This will go down well if you go to court.

Read the Consumer Rights Act - google it and you will find several good sites with everyday explanations of your rights. Essentially you can reject the product if it is not either as specified or of merchantable quality. The first is easier to demonstrate, which is why I asked earlier who specified the dimensions. You will need to collect evidence as to the reasons for rejection if you need to go to the next stage which is to pursue your claim through the Small Claims track. You will find this easier to do if you follow the procedure using the terminology in the CRA.

If you paid by credit or debit card you may well have a claim against the card if the supplier does not play ball, but the first thing is to follow the normal procedure. This is what the CAB will suggest, but if you read, say, the Which guidance on your rights you should have no problem pursuing it on your own.

 

[isandell]

If you are member of RYA their solicitor will do it for free
They got my money back from Goacher sails very quickly after I was getting nowhere

That's a good idea. I am a personal member and have dealt with the present and past head of the RYA legal team on club matters, but had not thought of using them in this situation.

Thanks

Ian

 

[isandell]

Assuming he is based in this country, suggest you write recorded delivery explaining your concerns about the product and asking what they intend doing to correct the errors and giving them a fixed time limit, say 14 days to respond. Say that you will reject the product if they do not rectify it. Appreciate you have already sent a letter and had no response, but it is important that the letter is clear about what you want within your rights and you set a firm time limit. This will go down well if you go to court.

Read the Consumer Rights Act - google it and you will find several good sites with everyday explanations of your rights. Essentially you can reject the product if it is not either as specified or of merchantable quality. The first is easier to demonstrate, which is why I asked earlier who specified the dimensions. You will need to collect evidence as to the reasons for rejection if you need to go to the next stage which is to pursue your claim through the Small Claims track. You will find this easier to do if you follow the procedure using the terminology in the CRA.

If you paid by credit or debit card you may well have a claim against the card if the supplier does not play ball, but the first thing is to follow the normal procedure. This is what the CAB will suggest, but if you read, say, the Which guidance on your rights you should have no problem pursuing it on your own.

That's more or less what I have done but as a novice I find the whole process rather daunting.

The CAB guide says of court action "This is a last resort and can be expensive and time-consuming. You should only do this if the item was particularly expensive and you don’t mind the stress and time of going to court. " It does seem that the odds are stacked in favour of the supplier.

I will find it reassuring to have someone who knows to go through what I have done. Hence CAB or RYA legal.

Ian

 

[Tranona]

That's more or less what I have done but as a novice I find the whole process rather daunting.

The CAB guide says of court action "This is a last resort and can be expensive and time-consuming. You should only do this if the item was particularly expensive and you don’t mind the stress and time of going to court. " It does seem that the odds are stacked in favour of the supplier.

I will find it reassuring to have someone who knows to go through what I have done. Hence CAB or RYA legal.

Ian

Nowhere near as daunting as you might think, and certainly not expensive - less than £50. www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview will guide you through the process.

Although talking to the RYA legal team will get you advice, you really should not need professional help to file a claim such as yours. The key to success is to use the language of the Act and present your case in such a way that gives the other side no room for argument. Therefore be clear exactly what you want, why you want it and support your claim with evidence that you have done everything possible to resolve the dispute. Their non-response so far is good background to put you in the right, for example.

Hopefully if you follow the process they will respond favourably to avoid going to court.

 

[isandell]

Nowhere near as daunting as you might think, and certainly not expensive - less than £50. www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview will guide you through the process.

Although talking to the RYA legal team will get you advice, you really should not need professional help to file a claim such as yours. The key to success is to use the language of the Act and present your case in such a way that gives the other side no room for argument. Therefore be clear exactly what you want, why you want it and support your claim with evidence that you have done everything possible to resolve the dispute. Their non-response so far is good background to put you in the right, for example.

Hopefully if you follow the process they will respond favourably to avoid going to court.

Thanks for reassurance, although I must correct you on the cost, unless I have misread something. The minimum charge will be £70 for court fees as the sail cost £1300.

As you say, hopefully they will respond favourably, but experience to date is that this compony is either completely incompetent, or unscrupulous, or both. (They took over two weeks to return my old sail during which time they twice said it had been dispatched when it was still in their loft.)

Ian