Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
+2
+2
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
It is necessary to put 45 fatalities into context.
There are some 560,000 boats in the UK and 3.6 million boaters. If we assume some four pleasure trips per year per boat that makes 14 and a half million boat trips .. out of that we have 7.5 fatalities a year in drink related incidents. That equates to one alcohol related fatality per 5.208*10-7 boat trips.. ????
This is not an issue.. There are other more pressing safety related issues in the overall public domain. I am led to think the MCA and MAIB have a stick and are looking for dogs to beat
prv
Well-Known Member
Last time this subject came up, some people did some digging into that number and found it very dubious indeed.
Pete
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Pete.
Could you clarify please?
Are you saying the 45 an over estimate?
Or are you questioning actual records from Coroners Inquiries?
Or are you suggesting the numbers I quoted are wrong? (BTW They came from the BMF website).
Either way it is helpful to get the absolute numbers into context and agreed by all parties so the actual extent problem can be clearly understood.
Putting things into context we can all understand.. 45 fatalities in six years.. Are you more likely to win the lottery?
PS; please do not interpret my desire to clarify facts as dismissing the effect of those accidents on their loved ones.
lenseman
Well-Known Member
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I have a very special drink whilst onboard but I only do it at a specific time which is 1130 on the 21 October.
http://www.rmg.co.uk/upload/img_200/D8080_crop.jpg
CFarr
Well-Known Member
I suspect it is the case that most of you boat owners are fully aware of how much alcohol is enough in all the varied situations you may find yourself in and drink/don't drink accordingly.
However, I do think it is much more likely that a lot of charterers take to the booze at the earliest opportunity, especially all male crews on a lads trip.
I have witnessed several times, skippers and crew arriving at the marina and cracking open the cans at 9:30 in the morning whilst preparing to sail, their holiday now firmly under way.
How drunk do think they'd have been by mid afternoon at that rate?
I make sure I sail t'other direction if poss.
However, I do think it is much more likely that a lot of charterers take to the booze at the earliest opportunity, especially all male crews on a lads trip.
I have witnessed several times, skippers and crew arriving at the marina and cracking open the cans at 9:30 in the morning whilst preparing to sail, their holiday now firmly under way.
How drunk do think they'd have been by mid afternoon at that rate?
I make sure I sail t'other direction if poss.
prv
Well-Known Member
I'm saying that other credible forumites (can't remember exactly who, but a google search for "site:ybw.com 45 drink" may find the original thread) investigated the actual figures and reported that the 45 was a substantial over-estimate.
Pete
prv
Well-Known Member
And yet how many of them have hurt others? Or even themselves? If the answer isn't "lots" to the second question and at least a statistically-significant "some" to the first, and it ain't, then there isn't a problem needing fixing.
Pete
alant
Well-Known Member
+1 totally agree with zero tolerance.
Much to easy to get blamed by a customer, if they see you imbibing a teaspoon full, prior to any incident.
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
Not a heavy drinker but I learned fairly early on about the effect that even a reasonable drink ( couple of pints on a sunny summer lunchtime) can have on the balance and judgement aboard a moving boat. So now our boat is "dry" until moored of an evening and that doesnt include anchoring when you nay need to move the boat.
When moored I usually have a pint of cider and rarely two pints of an evening aboard.
When moored I usually have a pint of cider and rarely two pints of an evening aboard.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of the ban on mobile phones while driving. It was a completely unnecessary piece of legislation which has done nothing to improve safety. All possible permutations were already taken care of in the various general laws we have in this country but for some reason it was felt that a very specific ban was required.
Similarly drinking on boats is already covered under laws which prevent putting yourself and others at risk, as well as any behaviour in public which is undesireable. Being drunk in charge will as far as I know already help to secure a conviction after the fact and therefore does not require a specific law. But government being what it is we will more than likely be given one anyway.
FWIW I drink an appropriate amount in the various situations on board.
Similarly drinking on boats is already covered under laws which prevent putting yourself and others at risk, as well as any behaviour in public which is undesireable. Being drunk in charge will as far as I know already help to secure a conviction after the fact and therefore does not require a specific law. But government being what it is we will more than likely be given one anyway.
FWIW I drink an appropriate amount in the various situations on board.
- When moored I treat it like home
- When at anchor I treat it like camping
- When under way slowly on a calm day with a good forecast I treat it like hiking/cycling
- When under way fast or with a poor forecast I treat it like driving
Searush
Well-Known Member
Admiralty Minutes 5299, folio 587, Pares, "Manning of the Navy" p34, ADM 1/235 T. Cotes, 20th April 1759:
"men might be offered anything up to £40 for the voyage home [from W Indies] to England, or 30 guineas and 20 gallons of rum"
From "The Wooden World" by NAM Rodger, p83
Men were allowed a standard daily ration of a gallon of beer in the C17th & C18th when the Navy was at the height of its powers.
In addition they would take their own supplies of rum, gin, wines for a given voyage, the officers would have plenty of brandy too.
The odd drink on a sailing boat is a long standing & harmless tradition.
"men might be offered anything up to £40 for the voyage home [from W Indies] to England, or 30 guineas and 20 gallons of rum"
From "The Wooden World" by NAM Rodger, p83
Men were allowed a standard daily ration of a gallon of beer in the C17th & C18th when the Navy was at the height of its powers.
In addition they would take their own supplies of rum, gin, wines for a given voyage, the officers would have plenty of brandy too.
The odd drink on a sailing boat is a long standing & harmless tradition.
onesea
Well-Known Member
I am not going to even put a quantity on it, it varies form nothing to hmm... would not admit that publicly (although this is very occasional and not planned
).When teaching I would not have one drop till the evening and all safely moored, even then I would not have more than 1 if I was still responsible.
On the other hand I did encourage my punters to drink normally, the lunch time 1 or 5 they would have in a Taverna Bar etc. That way I could show them the effects of drink on boats when your not used to it, 99% took the intelligent view. The others well could I have stopped them?
It is flogging a dead horse, there is no problem to fix.
I drink less than my parents for all they taught me
, the next generation seem to drink less than me 
. Socially it is not acceptable to drink to excess afloat 
so the problem is going to dies its own natural death.Please do us all the favour of fighting against regulations.So policeman plod cannot make up there detection rates in Marina's!
Then sailing & maybe more so Mobo's will be less popular berth prices will come down, maybe there are advantages
.
poter
Well-Known Member
Yachting & drink
45 fatalities in 6 years!
Can we have a breakdown - yachts; mobo; professional (fishermen etc) the true account may be far more revealing.
A significant number were alcohol related – again nos please.10 would be a significant no in relation to 45 fatalities but in boating terms totally insignificant & would you be able to stop/legislate against the idiots?
Playing around in boats is one of the last pleasurable unregulated pastimes & long may it be so.
45 fatalities in 6 years!
Can we have a breakdown - yachts; mobo; professional (fishermen etc) the true account may be far more revealing.
A significant number were alcohol related – again nos please.10 would be a significant no in relation to 45 fatalities but in boating terms totally insignificant & would you be able to stop/legislate against the idiots?
Playing around in boats is one of the last pleasurable unregulated pastimes & long may it be so.
bigwow
Well-Known Member
75 posts and the DVLA hasn't come up once
lustyd
Well-Known Member
75 posts and the DVLA hasn't come up once
Why would they? They are only in charge of the bits of paper
Searush
Well-Known Member
Most of them are likely to be people in small tenders returning to their mooring, or go fishing in small boats when drunk. There will be a few on inland waters too no doubt & in small sportsboats. They may even include the ones who go swimming when drunk - must be 2 or 3 a year die who like that.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
I'd put money on you being right and I bet there's a good number in fast dories, speedboats and RIBs. I can't imagine that many will have been in a boat much over 20'.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
We never drink on passage apart from the occasional celebratory bottle of champagne for big events. Champagne however isnt alcohol so that doesnt count.
Otherwise its like flying for me. 8 hours bottle to throttle. so, never a lot on the night before either.
Tied up in harbour all limits are off.
At anchor I always assume I might have to move the boat, so one of us aboard will have little or nothing.
On a mooring buoy, we will be somewhere inbetween the two depending on how secure we feel the place and weather are.
Otherwise its like flying for me. 8 hours bottle to throttle. so, never a lot on the night before either.
Tied up in harbour all limits are off.
At anchor I always assume I might have to move the boat, so one of us aboard will have little or nothing.
On a mooring buoy, we will be somewhere inbetween the two depending on how secure we feel the place and weather are.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
None at all when at sea - and I don't allow crew to drink either.
Occasionally a small amount at anchor but usually not.
When cruising we often go to the pub when tied up in a marina or on a pontoon and have two or three pints usually with a meal, but wouldn't drink if leaving very early in the morning. If not planning to sail at all the next day would possibly have more.
When racing in a regatta I would only drink small amounts in the evening, prob just a pint. For a start I'm usually the oldest on board so I need to focus more on being as fit as possible. And anyway, the owner would kick anyone off the boat if he thought their performance had been affected by drinking the night before - I've seen him do it in a couple of cases.
By the way, if you look closely the Thames RIB driver in the MAIB report got a substantial fine under existing legislation. Could've beaten up the workers in half the bookies in London for that.
Occasionally a small amount at anchor but usually not.
When cruising we often go to the pub when tied up in a marina or on a pontoon and have two or three pints usually with a meal, but wouldn't drink if leaving very early in the morning. If not planning to sail at all the next day would possibly have more.
When racing in a regatta I would only drink small amounts in the evening, prob just a pint. For a start I'm usually the oldest on board so I need to focus more on being as fit as possible. And anyway, the owner would kick anyone off the boat if he thought their performance had been affected by drinking the night before - I've seen him do it in a couple of cases.
By the way, if you look closely the Thames RIB driver in the MAIB report got a substantial fine under existing legislation. Could've beaten up the workers in half the bookies in London for that.
