How much difference does electronic engine controls make?

[EugeneR]

Currently looking at eight almost identical boats, all with TAMD63Ps. Seven come with electronic controls, one has manual control. Guess which one SWMBO likes the most...

To help me decide, what difference does electronic controls make in your view?

And, as an indication only, how much would you be willing to pay extra (or expect as discount), on a 10 year old boat, to have electronic controls instead of manual ones?

Any preference between Volvo EC or Morse?

 

[U4]

Currently looking at eight almost identical boats, all with TAMD63Ps. Seven come with electronic controls, one has manual control. Guess which one SWMBO likes the most...

To help me decide, what difference does electronic controls make in your view?

And, as an indication only, how much would you be willing to pay extra (or expect as discount), on a 10 year old boat, to have electronic controls instead of manual ones?

Any preference between Volvo EC or Morse?

I'm no expert however my first boat had manual and my last two electronic - electronic is significantly better IMO.

 

[alt]

I always had manual controls and felt better with them. I am very much of the mind-set 'keep it simple'. Much less to potentially go wrong with the manual controls and I always felt I was better off.

That was until I bought my current boat (KAD300's) with the electronic controls. OMG! I fell in love on the test drive and haven't looked back. It just feels so much better. So much easier to manoeuvre in close quarters etc.

I'll never go back

 

[henryf]

I have also had manual controls for a long time. I felt the manual controls couldn't go wrong and so they were much better. But of course they do go wrong. Cables seize a bit, controls go stiff and close quarters in particular can suffer as a result.

On the current CAT C12s I love the electronic control. A light touch makes everything feel more relaxed and enjoyable. Touch wood there have been no reliability issues although CAT fit manual overrides just in case. There is a little bit more scope for operator error with electronic controls. Leaving the berth whilst gaining my commercial yachtmaster licence I accidentally pushed neutral as I was selecting the close quarters engine speed tick over reduction. I thought I was being super efficient reducing close quarters thrust when engaging drive to reduce the risk of crew losing their balance whilst stowing ropes and fenders.

I found myself drifting with no drive. The engines revved up but nothing. I tried to re-establish command on the upper helm which did nothing, popped down below, established command on the lower helm, still no drive and it was only when at the lower helm I could see the neutral light was on. Cancelled that and all was well again. Popped back upstairs and carried on.

You wouldn't get that with manual controls where you have to physically pull a lever out. So you do need to learn things a bit more. It isn't necessarily quite as intuitive. would I go back? No.

Henry

 

[peterandjeanette]

Changing to electronic controls was a learning experience.

No more pushing on throttles with help from my knees or shoulder ( depending which helm, upper or lower ).

But, then leaning to :-

a. getting used to the "feel". So light to the touch that it was not always obvious when in neutral. I now know why some controls have a "neutral beep" to let you know when you are out of gear.

b. getting used to the delay that comes when engaging gear and the thrust from the back end, only very slight, but different.

c. the shear pleasure of the light finger touch control.

No brainer really. Electronic controls every time.

 

[asteven221]

Here is a point worth noting for those opting for electonic controls on older engines including the 63p which I have on my boat with Morse electronic controls. These controls are not entirely electronic. In fact they are electronic up until it gets to the actuator box, when they turn into standard morse style cables which are attached to the engine/gearshift.

From my experience if anything goes wrong with the electronic part, expect a big bill quite possibly in the £1000's. You could also have a situation where you have finger light touch control, but the actuators are actually fighting against an almost seized morse cable. With a manual system you will feel it, but not on an electronic system. There is a delay (designed into the system) between selecting fwd/n/rev which takes getting used to. You also have to watch for accidentally leaning against the controls and taking off like a bat out of hell!

On the plus side they are really nice to use. They are extremely well built (Morse) and look to me to be up to what I imagine would be in something like aviation standards. Miles better than any other boat equipment I have seen, which are usually not very well built.

Personally I would prefer a nice new manual setup rather than electronic controls. As long as they don't go wrong, then electronic controls are arguably nicer to use. If I was buying a new boat and all other things being equal, which they never are, I would go manual. IMHO there are a lot of more important things to consider when buying a boat than controls. As long as they work ok, then it really doesn't matter that much.

 

[volvopaul]

Currently looking at eight almost identical boats, all with TAMD63Ps. Seven come with electronic controls, one has manual control. Guess which one SWMBO likes the most...

To help me decide, what difference does electronic controls make in your view?

And, as an indication only, how much would you be willing to pay extra (or expect as discount), on a 10 year old boat, to have electronic controls instead of manual ones?

Any preference between Volvo EC or Morse?

The control system in the phantoms is volvos own system which I have worked on for many years, it's very simple but there is a big but, the fact is ts now obsolete, when I last checked for an actuator there were 4 left in the world stock so if a nut goes down you can't buy another if there all sold, but they are reliable, it's mainly power supply failures I've come across and corroded upper helm units where they have been left in the weather, the helm control is the same as the first edc one so no supply problem, it's the main units itself. Very easy to diagnoses as well, if there is a fault just push the button and read the fault on the display.

I wouldn't be put off buying the boat because of the supply issue.

 

[rosssavage]

Except the throttle lever assembly on an A320 costs as much as my entire boat!! Seriously.. Then start thinking about the control boxes and actuators, and you are into new house territory (albeit a small house..)

Nothing like aviation standards I'm afraid. I know of not one single incident ever when the throttles have failed on a FBW airliner.

Sorry for the drift..

Have done some hours helming a friends F43 with the Morse KE4's, and they are a delight. Yes, slight delay from the 'boxes, but you adapt quickly. Very simple to operate (only one extra button) and intuitive LED's to indicate mode / gear status.

She's only had one problem which was resolved with a simple power down reboot. There is something rather nice about the real finger tip control.

If I could afford it, I would seriously consider fitting some to my boat, but on a 24 yr old Princess it ain't really worth it.

 

[mbird]

I had always had manual throttles until we bought Secret Lady last year. She is 20 years old and has 2x KAMD42A's retro fitted with ZF Mathers electronic throttle actuators. They took some getting used to (particularly the delay, which is even more pronounced if shifting from forward to reverse or visa-verse). Unfortunately one of the actuator boxes failed as coming into the marina leaving me with no control. The box had been fried, and as they were an obsolete model I had no option but to buy 2 new actuators to the tune of nearly £2500. Very expensive kit, that can fail, but is a joy to use. The new actuators have the facility for an audible signal when changing into neutral (a must imho) and auto-synchronisation of the engines, plus single stick control, all of which I find very handy.

 

[Bandit]

Old fairline fly Volvo Penta 63p engines VP teleflex type control cables very heavy on a flybridge and not always easy to feel if in gear. Heavy to use.

Current boat 63p engines vp electronic shift very light to use an precise, love them.

However there is a little ball bearing that slots in to place on the gear box to stop the gear box actuator quadrant partly engaging and slipping the clutch. This needs to be in a good condition and greased or can stick in ahead when you think it is in reverse so you give it more wells which means faster ahead rather than astern. Expensive problem. Check these carefully and if necessary replace quadrant, ball bearing and spring with new and grease parts cost pence.

 

[PCUK]

Is featherlight control useable when the boat is crashing through rough waters? Just a thought as I am also of the luddite 'keep it simple' brigade who has always had properly adjusted mechanical controls.

 

[z1ppy]

it took me a while to get used to the "delay" but i wouldnt every go back to manual controls now. (even the ribs we were / are looking at now need to have electronic controls for me)

 

[David2452]

Is featherlight control useable when the boat is crashing through rough waters? Just a thought as I am also of the luddite 'keep it simple' brigade who has always had properly adjusted mechanical controls.

Not unly usable but more easily usable and accurate, I would never go back, not that I will have any option in the future I guess.

 

[Bandit]

You can change the delay and anyone driving a non electronic gearbox control should build in a delay you can't go from 3k ahead to 3k astern instantaneously without heavily loading box and clutch pack.