How many to crew a 24 footer?

Well the OP has already said he isn't fussy about space below, and the Hunter 19 / Europa sails very well with excellent handling.

There is a small forum in the ' Community ' section - see top of this page, in the darker blue / black band - dedicated to ' The Genius Of Oliver Lee ', the designer; his boats are always a joy to sail even if not dayglo stripey and trendy !
 
john_morris_uk said:
The difference between dinghy/flying fifteen spinnaker work and larger boat/cruiser racer spinnaker work is that the job normally comes down when flying the kite on the larger boats. It means someone has to run up to the foredeck to get the jib down (and if you are running with a tuff luff or similar, they sometimes have to go back up the foredeck to feed it in at the hoist just before the kite comes down.
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Thanks, John. In this case (H19 vs FF) the cruiser is the smaller boat, but I imagine it's probably rigged more like a big boat.
 
Iain C said:
I would say you might want to take a step back for 2 mins and work out what you are trying to achieve.

If you want good, close, competitive racing in a boat that is fully crewed with two, on a modest budget, then the 15 already offers this.

If you want something that you can sleep aboard, yet still be competitive, then by all means go bigger, but then you need the crew to race it. Plus, you need to think about keeping the weight down (in terms of "sleeping" gear) whilst at the same time keeping the bottom very clean, and by the way unless you are currently racing at the very top of the 15 fleet, you are going to be writing much bigger cheques to sail slower...

If it's remotely possible, would you be better off just looking for an old cruiser that you can throw beer/mates in and have a laugh at the weekend without worrying about ultimate competitiveness, and keep the 15 as your race boat? I suspect that you will find any of these pocket cruiser racers much less rewarding to sail than your 15...
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Sounds like very sensible advice.

We raced a Sigma 33 for a couple of seasons and were very uncompetitive. When I discovered the hot boats were spending many many thousands a year on new sails etc on a boat that only costs £20+k then we gave up and bought a big fat crusising boat. (There were other reasons, like a growing family and we liked having hot water and ANY extra weight like a calorifier was complet no for a competitive boat.)
 
Thanks for all the advice and opinions guys. Just to clarify a few things -

The main problem is the hostility we have come up against sailing our fifteen with the spinnaker class in our cruiser fleet. Wont go into this. However, I am not changing boat because a few people get upset, I would genuinely like something that if we wanted we could kip onboard etc. We would also be able to keep it on the water rather than the messing about launching everyime you want to go out.

When it comes to competitiveness - this is local club racing. Not nationals stuff. My fifteen is about 30 years old and no where near competitive to newer ones although it is in fair condition. Im not sailing to win cups etc, its just abit of craic.
 
john_morris_uk said:
The difference between dinghy/flying fifteen spinnaker work and larger boat/cruiser racer spinnaker work is that the job normally comes down when flying the kite on the larger boats. It means someone has to run up to the foredeck to get the jib down (and if you are running with a tuff luff or similar, they sometimes have to go back up the foredeck to feed it in at the hoist just before the kite comes down.
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Do most not have roller reefers for jibs?
 
That would be worth asking on the owners association, but I wouldn't use a roller if racing a Europa, even if just for fun; my Osprey dinghy did have a furler for spin work, but it's not exactly a long trot to the front of a Europa.

I use separate headsails on my boat, which is very similar, a scaled up H19, and I know others with A22's who have ditched their rollers in favour of hanked sails, as much because of reliability issues as performance.
 
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Alan_B said:
Thanks for all the advice and opinions guys. Just to clarify a few things -

The main problem is the hostility we have come up against sailing our fifteen with the spinnaker class in our cruiser fleet. Wont go into this. However, I am not changing boat because a few people get upset, I would genuinely like something that if we wanted we could kip onboard etc. We would also be able to keep it on the water rather than the messing about launching everyime you want to go out.
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Interesting - I take it the 15 is proving competitive? :) Is it a case of disappearing on the plane downwind in any breeze?

Alan_B said:
Do most not have roller reefers for jibs?
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A roller furler could be a good option if you can get away with a single headsail (i.e. no sail changes) - that would allow you to furl away the jib easily after the hoist, and unfurl it quickly after. I believe Pentex sails can survive on a furler, although I wouldn't want to do it to mine.

Roller reefing (rolling to reduce foresail area) is rarely used by racers - my only experience of it is on cruising boats and then it has always meant big, baggy headsails which are no good for pointing.

Another good option for short handing is an asymmetric kite. Our boat has been retro-fitted with one and I use it a lot. I'm not sure if a Hunter 19 would really benefit from one though - depends on the boat - mine is derived from an old mini-transat design and loves reaching.
 
I race and cruise my triple-keel Achilles 24 and it's a great little yacht for this purpose - competitive on the water and very sea worthy for longer trips. I usually race with a crew of two or three - four is a bit too much of a squeeze and it's a light enough boat that I've not felt the need for additional weight on the rail from the extra crew. Cruising is fine for two, but again would be tight for three. The quarterberths are 6'6" long and the forecabin is relatively roomy.

I have a new Crusader racer/cruiser Dacron furling genoa that is excellent. You're best reefing down the main before the foresail on Achilles.
 
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mrming said:
Interesting - I take it the 15 is proving competitive? :) Is it a case of disappearing on the plane downwind in any breeze?

A roller furler could be a good option if you can get away with a single headsail (i.e. no sail changes) - that would allow you to furl away the jib easily after the hoist, and unfurl it quickly after. I believe Pentex sails can survive on a furler, although I wouldn't want to do it to mine.

Roller reefing (rolling to reduce foresail area) is rarely used by racers - my only experience of it is on cruising boats and then it has always meant big, baggy headsails which are no good for pointing.

Another good option for short handing is an asymmetric kite. Our boat has been retro-fitted with one and I use it a lot. I'm not sure if a Hunter 19 would really benefit from one though - depends on the boat - mine is derived from an old mini-transat design and loves reaching.
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Well yes in a good breeze we do tend to take off, the pair of us coming in at 19 stone helps there, but on a beat in the same conditions we are loosing out to the cruisers which dont get blown sideways, dont heel as much and can often point higher. In light conditions its no better or worse than most cruisers to be honest. Its not asif we finish first, infact usually the middle of the pack.

Maybe I am not using the right terminology (only been sailing 18 months or so) on the fifteen the jib gets rolled in on a furler by pulling on a sheet thats run to the cockpit. Most of the boats, be they 15s or cruisers in our club are the same. I assumed most would have this rather than the clips and a haylard? Maybe not, but it would certainly be handy for just the two of us.
 
In that case your 15 has roller furling rather than roller reefing.

There's no reason you can't have this on a bigger boat. If the Hunter 19 only needs one headsail then it could be a nice solution. If you have more than one jib for different wind conditions then hanks are easier.

Roller reefing, with the sail designed to have it's area reduced by rolling up, is not so popular with racers, although with the sail fully unrolled it could still potentially have a good shape.
 
Alan_B said:
Well just to put this to bed I may have bought a Hunter Europa this evening. Whoops! Pics in a few days ;)
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Congratulations. Best of luck with the racing.

Apart from the boat handling advantages, you'll find crew on the rail make quite a difference to your windward performance. You need more when the wind gets up and fewer for light airs racing.

If decent crew are hard to come by, get some enthusiastic newbies and train them up. You'll work out yourself what's the optimum number for various conditions.
 
image.jpg

Here is a quick snap I got this evening. Freshly buffed and anti fouled, good sails, new trailer which needs a few wee mods which I have someone lined up to do within the sailing club. Have a 2hp outboard I can use until next summer as well. Well pleased with it ;)
 
Seajet said:
She looks great, well done; don't hang around, do you ! :)
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You only live once!! Shes sitting at our marina, on a trailer so saves hassle of possible transportation costs, can be lauched via the slip no need for a crane. Compared to what most 25 year old spend going on a night out its not too bad at all :)
 
Well done I hope you enjoy.
Before you launch though make sure you set your spreaders, they are both pointing down a bit.
they need pushed up a bit to bisect the angle where they meet the shrouds, (she looks good I was past that way earlier in the week)
 
Congratulations on the new boat. I would suggest that you will want to move the bow rail forward or remove.ref another current post. The rail is usually in fronmt of the forestay.
Launching a fin keel boat ona trailer requires a steep ramp and that you let the trailer go down on the end of a piece of rope. If it d9oes not have it a cae or steel bar guide about half way up the keel will amke it easy to gide the boat when floating over the right spot on the trailer. Beware also that you will find the boat pitches bow up as you haul from the water as the boat trasitions from level in the water to stern resting down on the trailer. All quite doable if tides cooperate and ramp is steep enough. Perhaps best kept mostly on a mooring however.
re crew. I like to race my 21fter with 3 or 4 crew. Mostly 3 crew in cockpit one forward on side deck or front deck for weight. 3 is fine for spin operation. I have settled on stowing the spin in the anchor well with 2 cover type doors split fore and aft. The spin is failry easily stuffed back in at end of run and comes out easy on either tack.
I hope you get lots of enjoyment racing the new boat. It might seem duller than the 15 but then you can take lots more people if you wish and it will be a lot nicer in strong winds.
Make sure you get your reefing organised and easy. I keep a total of 4 hanked on jibs. Furlers in my experience will not perform well to windward when racing.
good luck olewill
 
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