How many coastal cruisers have a life raft?

[Zing]

I can’t help but think that the reasoning for not having a life raft are more about supporting a decision to save £1000 quid than about good judgement. As a test just consider if you could buy a new liferaft for twenty quid and if you would then switch into the ‘have one‘ camp arguing keenly that everyone should carry them. I believe many would change.

 

[Gary Fox]

I can’t help but think that the reasoning for not having a life raft are more about supporting a decision to save £1000 quid than about good judgement. As a test just consider if you could buy a new liferaft for twenty quid and if you would then switch into the ‘have one‘ camp arguing keenly that everyone should carry them. I believe many would change.

Very true, and another consideration is that many yachts have nowhere accessible to put one, or nowhere to put one at all. This is obviously true of many smaller, older yachts.
I reckon a survey would show that those who don't carry liferafts are perfectly aware of the benefits, but have either no room or no money for one.
Those with liferafts who disparage and sneer at the ignorance of those who, (for various reasons), sail without one, are saying more about themselves.

 

[Daydream believer]

Those with liferafts who disparage and sneer at the ignorance of those who, (for various reasons), sail without one, are saying more about themselves.

I have not noticed anyone "sneering" at those who do not have one. Or is it a case of one "sneering" at those that do??
Or shall we just accept that some have them & some do not & that we listen to the reasons for/against & accept others have opinions. Thus, making our own judgement based on our own resources & requirements

 

[Greenheart]

I think a dry suit is something well worth contemplating.

Surely.

The idea of lying at length in sodden ordinary clothes, even in the world's best life-raft, could discourage me from ever going out of sight of the beach.

I'm interested to know whether life-raft owners/purchasers whose sailing is predominantly at 50 degrees north, have selected the extra cost and bulk of the double-floored version, that was considered necessary for cold water when I read the Avon brochures (some time ago). Or does the self-reassurance of acquiring any life-raft rather than none, set aside such concerns?

 

[dgadee]

I can’t help but think that the reasoning for not having a life raft are more about supporting a decision to save £1000 quid than about good judgement. As a test just consider if you could buy a new liferaft for twenty quid and if you would then switch into the ‘have one‘ camp arguing keenly that everyone should carry them. I believe many would change.

It's not just the initial cost, it's the cost of servicing every 3 years. But I agree, if it was cheap there would be more of them around.

 

[Greenheart]

I can’t help but think that the reasoning for not having a life raft are more about supporting a decision to save £1000 quid than about good judgement. As a test just consider if you could buy a new liferaft for twenty quid and if you would then switch into the ‘have one‘ camp arguing keenly that everyone should carry them. I believe many would change.

I think Basil Fawlty would say "Mr Zing, specialist subject, the bleeding obvious". No offence, mind.

Of course, of course it's a matter of money. Their price and the cost of servicing, despite the overwhelming improbability of their ever being needed, is money that may be seriously needed elsewhere...

...on small boats where a raft is a substantial proportion of the vessel's whole cost, the money might cover new standing rigging or through-hull fittings or AIS, or some significant maintenance which if neglected in order to pay for the raft, might conceivably precipitate the need for the raft...

...not likely, of course, because it's extraordinarily unlikely that you'll need it at all. That fact doesn't make the money easier to lay out. It's like a premium-policyholder's trinket from an insurer, a whopping additional outlay plus repeat expenses, from which you earnestly pray never to see any benefit. ?

Do we have any figures on rafts not opening on demand? How would you feel if you pulled the cord and the thing you'd set your mind to accept paying for all these years, didn't open? (Keep the tender handy).
P'raps it's worth having two life-rafts on every yacht. Not cheap, but after all...could save your life.

 

[dom]

P'raps it's worth having two life-rafts on every yacht. Not cheap, but after all...could save your life.

Offshore, that's a very good idea And why IMOCA races usually spec two: a regular ISO 9650 one in the emergency area of the vessel and a SOLAS one externally fitted with hydrostatic release.

 

[doris]

I have to say that after 40 years of channel sailing, cruising and racing, it wouldn't occur to me not to have a life raft and to expect crew to get some training. The first sea survival course I did back in the early nineties was a huge eye opener and I have remained current ever since.
Fog, fire or catastrophic failure can and does happen. And yes, I have had a raft in the cockpit ready to go in total fog! The stats the the RNLI roll out are self promoting I know but usually real.
There comes a time when one should just drown like a gentleman but I would rather it wasn't me.
Just crossing Lyme Bay can easily take one 40 odd miles offshore by the way.

 

[Greenheart]

IMOCA races usually spec two: a regular ISO 9650 one in the emergency area of the vessel and a SOLAS one externally fitted with hydrostatic release.

I thought imoca was some sort of chocolatey coffee.

Given the unusual competence, energy and resilience of offshore-racers, it might be thought that they could manage with just one liferaft, better than the average elderly cruiser could. Do we infer that IMOCA recognises better than, e.g., the RYA, the potential (but wholly unpredictable) failure of life-rafts to open as intended?

Why stop at two?

 

[dom]

I thought imoca was some sort of chocolatey coffee.

Given the unusual competence, energy and resilience of offshore-racers, it might be thought that they could manage with just one liferaft, better than the average elderly cruiser could. Do we infer that IMOCA recognises better than, e.g., the RYA, the potential (but wholly unpredictable) failure of life-rafts to open as intended?

Why stop at two?

The idea of two is that the one up on deck could conceivably be damaged or washed away. I think -- happy to be corrected -- that the incidence of fully-serviced LRs failing to open is vanishingly low.

 

[Greenheart]

That's good to know. Although I suppose looking for a case of one not opening, you first have to find a case of one being required to open...

...like looking for a very particular needle, not just one of the various that might (but more likely do not) inhabit the haystack.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Could be the best £2k(ish) one has ever spent?

Not as good as an engine service for a tenth of the money ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

With the greatest of respect, those who think an inflatable dinghy will protect them in rough water are deluding themselves! A 2ft wake is enough to overwhelm/flip one of these.

How stable are they with two people sitting the bottom? Don't have one, so don't know, but I suspect a lot more stable than as normally used.

 

[dom]

Not as good as an engine service for a tenth of the money ...

True, but which will still sputter if at the entrance of said L'Aber Wrac'h it sucks in diesel bug stirred-up by the big swells down there.

I guess safety boils down to layering.

 

[Daydream believer]

I can’t help but think that the reasoning for not having a life raft are more about supporting a decision to save £1000 quid than about good judgement. As a test just consider if you could buy a new liferaft for twenty quid and if you would then switch into the ‘have one‘ camp arguing keenly that everyone should carry them. I believe many would change.

I do not think one has to spend quite that much.
My Seago was £749 .Spread that over 15 years plus £100 PA to cover the service. We are talking £150 PA.
Compare that with an offshore flare pack at £190 for 3 years.
The Seago is of reasonable quality. Certainly enough for the 4 hours i would expect to be in it if in the southern N sea or channel if I got off a distress signal. There are flares in the raft!!! & I always wear my LJ which has my PLB attached. So if I make it into the raft then 4 hours is a reasonable expectation. Past that I doubt I would be in a suitable state to be worth saving
I do not think the cost is really so great in the grand scheme of things.
But then some have to budget very carefully, so whilst desirable ,--affordable is another matter

 

[Birdseye]

So I've been sailing for 30 plus years, mainly racing and coastal hopping on the east coast, and I've never had a life raft. When I started, there was no GPS, vhfs weren't digital and flares (fashion and handheld) were the thing. If going far I'd sometimes have an inflatable on the cabin top.

Many of the boats that I know on the east coast still don't have a life raft.

However, this season I'm hoping to go further than I have for a while, channel and southern Brittany. As a practice run for keeping her in my house in southern Brittany in a couple of years.

So I am thinking of getting an epirb and a liferaft. The epirb is a no brainer and I should have got one years ago.

I'm still in two minds about the liferaft. I don't sail in extreme conditions if I can avoid it, and with modern forecasting it's rare to be completely caught out.

So is an inflatable on the cabin roof good enough backup to stepping off the sinking boat? I know there have been threads about this but what do others actually have? Have I been an irresponsible minority coastal hopping without a liferaft for 30 years, or is that the norm.

Plus any suggestions for which one.

Yes we have a life raft. Out of date tbh. I have seen what happens when a boat catches fire or explodes with a gas leak - those are the times when you would want a raft

 

[Greenheart]

It may already have been discussed in this thread, but I'm not going back looking for it: a Yachting Monthly liferaft review from five years ago. Detailed but not too lengthy, and well worth a look:

Six ISO 9650 liferafts tested

It is noticeable how very small the rafts look, and how low in the water. It's also mentioned that the testers wore drysuits, which are surely the only reason they are smiling - it looks ghastly (it's February).

I never before read anything as contemptibly weak as the excuses (and lack of excuses) from the manufacturers who were asked for their rafts to test, and weren't forthcoming.

 

[Daydream believer]

When my last last raft went for its first test we made arrangements for my wife to go along & video the inflating. She was able to see what it looked like & see how the entry ladder worked then show us at home the film. She also checked the contents.
We found it most useful & enlightening.

 

[[178529]]

It may already have been discussed in this thread, but I'm not going back looking for it: a Yachting Monthly liferaft review from five years ago. Detailed but not too lengthy, and well worth a look:

Six ISO 9650 liferafts tested

It is noticeable how very small the rafts look, and how low in the water. It's also mentioned that the testers wore drysuits, which are surely the only reason they are smiling - it looks ghastly (it's February).

I never before read anything as contemptibly weak as the excuses (and lack of excuses) from the manufacturers who were asked for their rafts to test, and weren't forthcoming.

I have to say reading that makes me as nervous about getting a liferaft as not getting one. A drysuit isn't practical. Having worn many in my youth the idea of getting into one in a sinking boat when everything else is going on seems unlikely in the extreme to me. Without a drysuit I would think it would be a huge struggle in cold water getting into the liferaft, unless you stepped into it, which doesn't seem to be how it's done.

What this thread is missing, and has missed from the get go, is facts on the frequency of use of liferafts - for leisure craft - in UK coastal waters. Only with that data can you do a risk/cost based decision. Also, are there any figures on people who drown despite deploying liferafts?

 

[JumbleDuck]

True, but which will still sputter if at the entrance of said L'Aber Wrac'h it sucks in diesel bug stirred-up by the big swells down there.

The 90% of a liferaft left over could pay for a tank clean and some bug treatment ...

I guess safety boils down to layering.

Yes, I agree. Very few of us could afford every possible measure in prevention and mitigation, so it's a matter of thinking hard about where the money we have will do most good.