geem
Well-Known Member
Do you know what wind speeds you experienced?
How long anchor rope/rode for UK inshore wandering?
- Thread starter mikefleetwood
- Start date
doug748
Well-Known Member
Beware of mission creep.
You start off with a question about anchoring in benign places with lot's of secure shallow anchorages and close, secure alternatives. And can end up equipping your boat for a year in Patagonia.
PS
For obscure anchoring spots nothing beats Robin Brandon's - South England Pilot part 4 Start Point to Lands End. Pub c1980.
Some of these bays are only tenable in offshore winds so you have to pick your weather with care.
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Supertramp
Well-Known Member
Not exactly. In the two hours at its peak I was sat at the helm ready to act. The boat was heeling to 30-40 degrees - Supertramp never gets past 15 or 20 in fresh sailing. The water was green and "boiling" with trapped air- it frothed in the toilet bowl! Which I have read about. The deck was covered in tiny stones from the squalls. Later were gusts up to 55knts and "lulls" at 40 when I had instruments on and was watching.
Fully agree. My advice was simple strong anchor and rode. I do not seek out adventures or terror at those levels!
seeSimon
Well-Known Member
Very limited cruising experience.
Similar cruising area, similar size boat 8m, mine is light displacement <1.5T lift keel (and tends to wind rode) . No windlass, no space for windlass.. 65 yo skipper!
Carrying 10m x 8mm chain, 50 mm x 14mm 3 strand polyester. With a 6kg Rocna my bow locker is pretty much full. This is about as much as I can regularly heave in if dangling vertical!
This is from experience... I "upsized" to a 10kg Rocna, only to find that I can barely retrieve it if dangling...and I'm not going to get any stronger.
This anchor kept in aft locker (now for "emergencies "). It Won't fit in bow locker, although I knew this before buying.
Having walked the warp forward, and secured, I launch the anchor from aft.
My Fortress FX7 (usually kedge, but in quiet rivers use that, for convenience) on same rode set up has always been good, but recently at St Mawes (1.5m, over mud at LW) let me down, and dragged when it failed to reset at tide change. Quite windy, but in the shelter of the river..
This was on third night, after two OK nights. Hauled in to find it embedded in a massive ball of weed!
Any opinions please?
Worth setting the angle to 45 degress? The mud palms are fitted.
If buying rope again, I'd buy plait of some sort.
My first 10 m is showing first signs of "cockling" from tides in estuaries after 3 seasons.
Chain. Beware. Small chain means small shackles, and that is what worries me. Greatly.... I use only certificated "green pin" or similar lifting rated gear. Aĺl galv on galv chain, galv anchor.
NOT chinesium tat off ebay!
mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
Thank you all for your advice, comments and experiences.
The existing anchor is a substantial "modern" model (possibly original 1983, but may be a later replacement) attached to 20m of 8mm galvanised chain - all in good condition. I have decided to purchase 100m of 12mm polyester and splice it to the end of the chain (currently the end of the chain is spliced to about 2m of 16mm nylon, terminating with a stop knot into the forward locker). The anchor lives in a shallow well on the foredeck and the chain disappears down a hawse (is that the right name?) into the chain locker beneath. There is no winch, and no obvious place to mount one - without finding a new home for the anchor.
I have a spare anchor in a cockpit locker, and will bring the 40m 16mm nylon I mentioned onboard to attach to it if needed. It has an eye/thimble in one end so I can use a shackle to attach to the anchor. I'll probably splice a loop into the other end to it can easily slip over a handy cleat.
I will probably use a spray can to mark every 5/10m on the main anchor chain/rope.
The existing anchor is a substantial "modern" model (possibly original 1983, but may be a later replacement) attached to 20m of 8mm galvanised chain - all in good condition. I have decided to purchase 100m of 12mm polyester and splice it to the end of the chain (currently the end of the chain is spliced to about 2m of 16mm nylon, terminating with a stop knot into the forward locker). The anchor lives in a shallow well on the foredeck and the chain disappears down a hawse (is that the right name?) into the chain locker beneath. There is no winch, and no obvious place to mount one - without finding a new home for the anchor.
I have a spare anchor in a cockpit locker, and will bring the 40m 16mm nylon I mentioned onboard to attach to it if needed. It has an eye/thimble in one end so I can use a shackle to attach to the anchor. I'll probably splice a loop into the other end to it can easily slip over a handy cleat.
I will probably use a spray can to mark every 5/10m on the main anchor chain/rope.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Suggest 100m permanently attached is really not necessary - half that is more than enough then use the other 50m from your reel (left on the drum if you have it) as backup. An eye on the end so that you can shackle it on to either your spare anchor (with maybe 5m of chain) or to extend your main rode (highly unlikely). not sure when you might need to use 40m of 16mm
Tranona
Well-Known Member
If you use the proper shackles 6mm is more than adequate from a strength point of view. I use 6mm on a 5.5ton 31' boat. The advantage of 8mm in a mixed rode is a little more of the catenary effect although with only 10m this is only useful in shallow water and lighter winds.
seeSimon
Well-Known Member
Rated Strength...agree.
It's the quality and vulnerability to corrosion of small stuff that worries me. Pins failing due to corroded threads etc... I'd rather have a larger margin.
And then there's the size limitation of what ropes can spliced into smaller chains. Personally I prefer using a hard eye. This is another reason to size up...ease/convenience perhaps rather than working load limits.?
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
You will find it extremely frustrating trying to feed rope down a hawse pipe. I would increase your chain length so that the rope is used rarely.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Not sure that corrosion is really an issue. Anything that compromises strength would be clearly visible. The main reason for larger size chain is ultimate strength with a small potential bonus in better catenary.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Re Stirm Floris
Apart from Storm Eowyn earlier this year, which was even stronger albeit less boats out cruising, such storms are not that unusual - even before global warming. When I was working I was only able to sail for 2-3 weeks per summer, but even then I have experienced three more severe storms over the past few decades - with verified F11.
One was in the 1990s, before long range forecasts, and we had to take “shelter” in Arisaig. We spent 36 hours on a mooring feeling like we were beating to windward due to the waves and heel in the gusts. I put every kitchen towel round the mooring rope to reduce chafe at the bow roller. 5 or 6 boats broke free from their moorings and went ashore at Arisaig alone. Masses more elsewhere.
And the 23 May 2011 storm was another huge one. With longer range forecasts we had just arrived in Glenarm when saw the long range forecasts and headed back. Eventually holed up in Tarbert Loch Fyne, fortunately able to strap ourselves between two fingers in this “hurricane hole”. Again sadly many boats were wrecked having come off moorings.
The third of these we were underway in an ex-British Steel 70 footer in the Clyde - and had waves breaking clear over the decks and coachroof before we abandoned and headed for Lamlash.
So at best a once a decade thing - but probably increasing.
I fear you may be disappointed if you think such storms will only be a once in a lifetime experience.
Apart from Storm Eowyn earlier this year, which was even stronger albeit less boats out cruising, such storms are not that unusual - even before global warming. When I was working I was only able to sail for 2-3 weeks per summer, but even then I have experienced three more severe storms over the past few decades - with verified F11.
One was in the 1990s, before long range forecasts, and we had to take “shelter” in Arisaig. We spent 36 hours on a mooring feeling like we were beating to windward due to the waves and heel in the gusts. I put every kitchen towel round the mooring rope to reduce chafe at the bow roller. 5 or 6 boats broke free from their moorings and went ashore at Arisaig alone. Masses more elsewhere.
And the 23 May 2011 storm was another huge one. With longer range forecasts we had just arrived in Glenarm when saw the long range forecasts and headed back. Eventually holed up in Tarbert Loch Fyne, fortunately able to strap ourselves between two fingers in this “hurricane hole”. Again sadly many boats were wrecked having come off moorings.
The third of these we were underway in an ex-British Steel 70 footer in the Clyde - and had waves breaking clear over the decks and coachroof before we abandoned and headed for Lamlash.
So at best a once a decade thing - but probably increasing.
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
I fear you may be right.
I was on board in my home marina in Storm Eowyn and while it was ferocious, it was several notches less than my Floris experience. I do think topography had an impact on local conditions where I was - Shuna is a big lump for wind to get round.
mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
I must admit I was a bit concerned about that. I'm working on the principle that most of the rope will live quietly in the locker and never see the light of day. I'm wary of the weight (and cost!) of too much chain.
I did see an online suggestion of coiling it all in a bucket (with drain holes) with an inner bucket to separate the rope from the chain. I'm not sure how to stop the whole lot going over side in a big wave!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Another sound reason for going all chain - or majority chain. With only 20m you will almost certainly use rope every time you anchor. The number of times you need it reduces the more chain you have - 30m not very often 40m rarely. Not sure why you think you cannot fit a windlass see here yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/moody-29-for-sale/805817.
For a small boat with an open locker for stowing the rode and maybe the anchor a mixed rode is fine but once you get to the sort of boat you have with underdeck stowage then all chain is really the way to go. weight really is not an issue. 20m of 8mm weighs 28kg, 50m of 6mm 40kg. As I suggested earlier 50m of 6mm and 20 or 30m 12mm rope will cover the type of anchoring you are likely to encounter around UK coasts. You are unlikely to see the rope very often. It will be much easier to handle manually than a mixed rode and mostly self stow down the hawse pipe.
mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
OK, thinking about chain vs. rope:
Today, as the chain was all laid on the deck and I planned to go for a sail, I tried feeding it back into the hawse. It was fiddly trying to persuade the 16mm rope tail to go in - so imagine having to do that with 100m! Meanwhile as soon as a few inches of chain went in, gravity did the rest and it all pulled itself in as fast as I could guide it.
So, changed plan - I can buy 40m of 8mm chain for about £200, and a hammer-together joint for not much, so that's what I'll buy. With a total of 60m I will be OK to anchor in up to 20m in good conditions and it shouldn't be too difficult to manage by hand. Depending on how I get on with that I might buy a further 40m later, or economise with a length of polyester instead, later in the season. Over the Winter haul-out I'll think about if it's worth fitting a winch - I'm not getting any younger so it's probably a worthwhile investment!
Today, as the chain was all laid on the deck and I planned to go for a sail, I tried feeding it back into the hawse. It was fiddly trying to persuade the 16mm rope tail to go in - so imagine having to do that with 100m! Meanwhile as soon as a few inches of chain went in, gravity did the rest and it all pulled itself in as fast as I could guide it.
So, changed plan - I can buy 40m of 8mm chain for about £200, and a hammer-together joint for not much, so that's what I'll buy. With a total of 60m I will be OK to anchor in up to 20m in good conditions and it shouldn't be too difficult to manage by hand. Depending on how I get on with that I might buy a further 40m later, or economise with a length of polyester instead, later in the season. Over the Winter haul-out I'll think about if it's worth fitting a winch - I'm not getting any younger so it's probably a worthwhile investment!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
You really do not need 8mm. Spend the same money on 50 or 60m of 6mm. You will bless this advice every time you haul it by hand. Keep your current chin for your spare anchor which you are unlikely ever to need.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
I agree with Tranona. You certainly dont really need 6mm for a boat of 31 or 32 ft for ocassional anchoring. The only reason we have 8mm is that changing the gypsy on the capstan costs a lost
6mm can corrode and weaken so perhaps if boat lives at anchor 8mm might be advisable. I change my chain about every ten years and inspect it each winter
6mm can corrode and weaken so perhaps if boat lives at anchor 8mm might be advisable. I change my chain about every ten years and inspect it each winter
Boathook
Well-Known Member
Make sure what ever chain you buy is calibrated. Makes a big difference on a windlass.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
I don't think that 'calibrated' chain is a thing any more. Metric chain is built to a standard that is the same for all, except be aware that there are two standards for 10.mm.
mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
Sorry to revive a fairly old thread! In the end I decided on a compromise.
I bought another 20m of 8mm chain to join to the end if the existing chain - 40m total should be enough for the majority of my planned anchoring.
I've also bought 90m of 12mm nylon (because it was cheap on Amazon). I'll splice it onto the end of the chain, so there shouldn't be any lumps to stop it going through the hawse pipe. Initially, I'll just treat it like the existing rope tail and tie a stop knot in the forward locker, but later I'll probably cut off the last 2m and splice a loop into each end so I can join them with a suitable sized shackle (hopefully I can find one that fits through the hawse!) - and extend should that ever be needed (or I might take that opportunity to cut it in half and insert another loop/splice joint for more flexibility).
In the Winter I'll think about a windlass.
I bought another 20m of 8mm chain to join to the end if the existing chain - 40m total should be enough for the majority of my planned anchoring.
I've also bought 90m of 12mm nylon (because it was cheap on Amazon). I'll splice it onto the end of the chain, so there shouldn't be any lumps to stop it going through the hawse pipe. Initially, I'll just treat it like the existing rope tail and tie a stop knot in the forward locker, but later I'll probably cut off the last 2m and splice a loop into each end so I can join them with a suitable sized shackle (hopefully I can find one that fits through the hawse!) - and extend should that ever be needed (or I might take that opportunity to cut it in half and insert another loop/splice joint for more flexibility).
In the Winter I'll think about a windlass.